# New WoW General Discussion Thread 6/8/10 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 9, 2010, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480 "2010-06-09T00:30:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 178
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/3541 "2010-10-14T19:12:19Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > > [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > > > GY camping is a legitimate strategy, if a potentially stupid one with the potential of backfiring. > > If you just can’t grok what is unsportsmanlike about ganking people as soon as they rez, there is no point in continuing this conversation. The only time I’ve had that happen to me was in the Red Mountains way back yonder. I didn’t really mind it, except for the fact they were grouping and I was solo, so **Wolkie** was pretty much the one who had to wait. Q ---
**Author:** ![lizardling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f4b2a3/32.png) [@lizardling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lizardling)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/3542 "2010-10-14T19:19:17Z")
I actually stepped into a couple of heroics – and then promptly got checked into Hotel H HOS when Dal and NR went down while I was in there. “You check in, but you can’t check out!” _shivers_ That was a bad moment. One of my least favorite instances (I’ve run that sucker way too much) with no way to leave except alt-F4. _twitch_ But now that I’ve actually been in combat, I see exactly what Jas and SFG meant by the mushiness of the new GCD system and I hate it so much. It also didn’t help that nameplates are on the fritz more often than not so it was tougher for me to find the mobs. I’m still trying to come to grips with my new priority list and figuring out how to anticipate things coming off CD. Let alone the new procs. O.o However, being able to pepper bosses with multiple KS’s in a very short time was pretty nice. Our guild’s called raiding for a week, and is planning to try to get together with all the usual allied raiders to try to figure out which way to go with the new Flexible Raid Lock system – we usually have several 10s and one 25-man every week. IIRC there’s a beta version of Healbot out that works – try checking the usual sites (curse, wowinterface, wowace). I got Grid but haven’t tried it yet and I hear that the corner and side modules aren’t functioning just yet. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Wombats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Wombats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Wombats)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/3543 "2010-10-14T19:22:20Z")
Thanks **Bosstone**! I’ll give that a try when I get home this evening. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/3544 "2010-10-14T19:24:28Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > > [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > > > GY camping is a legitimate strategy, if a potentially stupid one with the potential of backfiring. > > If you just can’t grok what is unsportsmanlike about ganking people as soon as they rez, there is no point in continuing this conversation. It’s not that it isn’t unsportsmanlike. It’s that it doesn’t matter that it’s unsportsmanlike. The thing about automated combat systems in games – that is, systems that are designed to allow people to compete without the necessity for a human referee – is that you have to define every aspect of the competition you want to control via the system. Players are _always_ going to push the limits of what the system allows them to do to maximize their own advantage because there’s no authority figure to tell them not to. This is a pretty elementary facet of game design. The resulting implication is that if the designers didn’t control for some behavior in the system, that behavior is by default legal unless and until they change the system. For example, if the Blizzard designers didn’t want GY camping, they could install invulnerability bubbles in GYs so that the enemy can’t attack anyone within them. That they haven’t done this or something like this implies that it’s okay. Is it unsportsmanlike? Maybe, certainly by your personal code of ethics. Are people going to stop doing it? Until the designers decide they don’t want GY camping and fix it so people can’t do it any more, they won’t ever stop as long as it’s a successful tactic. It’s something you’ll have to accept and work around if you play in battlegrounds, or else you’re just going to let the game piss you off. Personally, I _like_ when people do asshole tactics like that. I consider it a fun and interesting challenge to figure out how to neutralize or outright beat them, and it’s _so_ satisfying when I do. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/3545 "2010-10-14T19:25:31Z")
Any druids try tanking yet? I’ve never played one, but the guy I ran H HoL with was complaining about Swipe - it has a longer cooldown or something? Anyway he complained about AoE threat being a lot more difficult. ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/3546 "2010-10-14T19:30:13Z")
> [@lizardling](#): > > I’m still trying to come to grips with my new priority list and figuring out how to anticipate things coming off CD. I use an addon called OmniCC. It works really well for letting you know when things are due to come off CD. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/3547 "2010-10-14T19:31:50Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Any druids try tanking yet? I’ve never played one, but the guy I ran H HoL with was complaining about Swipe - it has a longer cooldown or something? Anyway he complained about AoE threat being a lot more difficult. AOE threat is a lot more difficult across the board. For Cataclysm, Blizzard Does Not Want AOE spam from tanks and DPS. Intelligent choices need to be made and careful attention needs to be given to threat generation on both sides now. The next few months are going to be difficult for everyone while people adjust. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/3548 "2010-10-14T19:32:26Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > > [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > > > GY camping is a legitimate strategy, if a potentially stupid one with the potential of backfiring. > > If you just can’t grok what is unsportsmanlike about ganking people as soon as they rez, there is no point in continuing this conversation. I can, I think grok it, but if you don’t mind I’d ask for a little clarification, because there are lots of behaviors that can be called “GY camping” and it’s not clear to me which you are referring to. **Solo Camping** : Normally rogues or druids. Stealthed. Only attack solo rezzers, and normally only when they have all CDs up. Pretty unsportsmanlike, IMO. Also generally not really helping their team that much, and are pretty easy to defeat (just leave the GY and come back when you’re not going to rezz alone). Also very satisfying to kill (easier on a good Rogue-killing class obviously). **Team Camping in Solo GY BGs** : Basically WSG. Somewhat difficult to combat as a 4 or 5-man team can keep most of your team bottled down for awhile. Pretty easy to avoid though by just jumping off the cliff and running away. Also a rather poor strategy because of the position of the GY relative to the points of interest (flag room and flag carriers). I generally don’t see superb teams doing this much, at least not actually _in_ the GY (more often they will form at the bottom of the cliff, between the GY and the tunnel, killing people that jump down or come out of the tunnel - basically locking the team in their base). **Team Camping in Multi-Node BGs** : Arathi Basin, EotS, and IoC. I have no problem with this, within reason. Primarily because once it gets to this stage you have already lost, and the idea of “saving face” in a BG is rather foreign to me. Also because there is a reward for keeping the other team locked up. Obviously difficult to counter without stealth, especially since you are clearly playing a superior team. I’m assuming that you don’t have a problem, for example, with my whole team standing at the bottom of the hill in AB and killing y’all as you run down, right? It’s only standing directly _in_ the GY that you dislike? I’d ask one more question, if you don’t mind. Are you playing these BGs in PvE gear? Nothing is more frustrating that attempting to PvP with zero resilience, unless you really like dying alot. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/3549 "2010-10-14T19:40:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Personally, I _like_ when people do asshole tactics like that. I consider it a fun and interesting challenge to figure out how to neutralize or outright beat them, and it’s _so_ satisfying when I do. QFT. My two most memorable recent BG wins: 1. Alliance toon cheats out of the AB starting area and has capped three nodes before the gates open. We roll them (5-man premade) and end up with a 5-cap victory. Personally get the killing blow on the cheater at least 5 times. 2. Alliance get the first flag cap in WSG. They pick up our flag again and turtle it at their GY (bear FC with a pally healer, very hard to kill). The rest of their team camping our GY. After many bum rushes into death at the FC, I start thinking of other ways to get to him, and stand at the bottom of the cliff below their GY. I target the FC and wait until he stupidly wanders into range and Death Grip him down. I’m able to burn him down before the healer even notices he was gone, and we win with like 2 mins left on the game counter. If they’d just played real defense or gone for more flag caps instead of camping there’s no way we would have won that game. ---
**Author:** ![lizardling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f4b2a3/32.png) [@lizardling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lizardling)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/3550 "2010-10-14T19:44:24Z")
> [@Infovore](#): > > > [@lizardling](#): > > > > I’m still trying to come to grips with my new priority list and figuring out how to anticipate things coming off CD. > > I use an addon called OmniCC. It works really well for letting you know when things are due to come off CD. Oh, I already use that – I was speaking more of the instinctive feel that you get for your abilities after you’re familiar with them. I’m still working on focus management in a target rich environment and watching the various things as need watching. 🙂 Thanks though! ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/3551 "2010-10-14T19:46:16Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > There is nothing to be gained from killing people zoning in to WG fortress, so it’s greifing. Nothing to be gained battle- or team-wise, since this is between battles. But he’s getting credit toward things like the “# Honorable Kills” achievements and however many Honor Points he gets per kill. That is, personal benefit from ganking people while they’re “blind” (zoning in from Dalaran or, previously, exiting VoA). A favorite of warlocks is to perch on a ledge somewhere above the front door, hit people with huge DoTs the instant they zone in, and then duck out of sight. You never even see what direction those come from, since DoTs don’t have a “trail” like regular attack spells. On the topic of PvP, I had enough Honor Points to upgrade my paladin’s PvP set gloves and shoulders from Furious to Relentless. Apparently now you need a BG or Arena rating to purchase the Wrathful stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/3552 "2010-10-14T19:55:36Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > > [@Jas09](#): > > > > There is nothing to be gained from killing people zoning in to WG fortress, so it’s greifing. > > Nothing to be gained battle- or team-wise, since this is between battles. But he’s getting credit toward things like the “# Honorable Kills” achievements and however many Honor Points he gets per kill. That is, personal benefit from ganking people while they’re “blind” (zoning in from Dalaran or, previously, exiting VoA). Yeah, that’s true. I don’t world PvP so never really considered that part of it. I’d consider it a step below blue-walling, with a side of exploitation of game mechanics (i.e. reaching a location that should be inaccessible). Wouldn’t be surprised if he got a temporary ban with a warning to desist. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/3553 "2010-10-14T20:02:42Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > I’m assuming that you don’t have a problem, for example, with my whole team standing at the bottom of the hill in AB and killing y’all as you run down, right? It’s only standing directly _in_ the GY that you dislike? > > . Pretty much, yeah. Throttling opponents at the bottom of the hill in AB is a legit tactic. Same with camping the tunnel/cliff in WSG. It’s “game on” in those areas at all times. My objection is to those that are standing on the rez spot or nearby and gank as soon as someone rezzes. To respond to the “well, it’s legal” argument–so is running a fake field goal late in the 4th quarter when up by 17 points and on the road–but Tommy Tuberville is still an asshole for doing it. Likewise, stealing bases when up by 10 runs is perfectly legal in baseball. But if you do it, the next batter is probably gonna be hearing chin music. Cuz real men don’t do that shit. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/3554 "2010-10-14T20:07:33Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Cuz real men don’t do that shit. That’s nice. But you’re still getting ganked. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/3555 "2010-10-14T20:09:34Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > > [@Oakminster](#): > > > > Cuz real men don’t do that shit. > > That’s nice. But you’re still getting ganked. LOL, as they say. But to be honest, I don’t actually do that, for two reasons. 1) I’m out capping or defending a node, or carrying a flag and 2) you never know when the next guy to rezz will be a full-wrathful retlol with Shadowmourne. :o ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/3556 "2010-10-14T20:12:21Z")
Neither do I. I actually share **Oak** ’s code of ethics; I far prefer being an honorable warrior-type, and I even find a lot of enjoyment playing as a healer in BGs (which is very very rare in non-premades and makes a difference like woah). I just don’t expect everyone else to hold to my standards. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/3557 "2010-10-14T20:16:29Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > If you just can’t grok what is unsportsmanlike about ganking people as soon as they rez, there is no point in continuing this conversation. Well, you haven’t actually explained \*what’s \*unsportsmanlike about it. If it were out in the world, yeah, I could see that being unsportsmanlike, since you rez with only half your HP/Mana. But in a BG, _you come out fresh_. If you’re getting killed over and over, it is, quite frankly, because your opponents are simply _better at PvP_ than you and your team. And calling for someone to be permanently banned with all of their gear and characters deleted for the high crime of _being a better player than you_… Well, to me, \*that’s \*unsportsmanlike. > [@Skammer](#): > > Anyway he complained about AoE threat being a lot more difficult. This is the case for all tanks, and it’s at least partially intended. > [@Jas09](#): > > Alliance toon cheats out of the AB starting area and has capped three nodes before the gates open. See this, **Oak**? \*This \*is the kind of person who deserves to be permanently banned. Not the person who’s simply making an intended use of the game mechanics. > [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > A favorite of warlocks is to perch on a ledge somewhere above the front door, hit people with huge DoTs the instant they zone in, and then duck out of sight. You never even see what direction those come from, since DoTs don’t have a “trail” like regular attack spells. In theory, you could check your combat log to see the person’s name, do a /tar on them, and then use a Focusing Lens to find out where they are, assuming they haven’t completely skeedaddled. > [@Oakminster](#): > > But if you do it, the next batter is probably gonna be hearing chin music. Cuz real men don’t do that shit. But apparently “real men” do engage in violence that \*is \*against the rules. Right. Gotcha. Suddenly glad I keep \*my \*penis in the sock drawer. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Clawdio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d07c76/32.png) [@Clawdio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clawdio)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/3558 "2010-10-14T20:19:50Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > QFT. My two most memorable recent BG wins: > > 1. Alliance toon cheats out of the AB starting area and has capped three nodes before the gates open. We roll them (5-man premade) and end up with a 5-cap victory. Personally get the killing blow on the cheater at least 5 times. I had a similar experience while leveling my horde lock. we promptly got the 3 bases back, 5 capped, then GY camped them on way to a 1600-10 (or something like that) victory. It was over fast but i think i had 35 kills and 0 deaths… so satisfying. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/3559 "2010-10-14T20:21:22Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > But apparently “real men” do engage in violence that \*is \*against the rules. Right. Gotcha. Suddenly glad I keep \*my \*penis in the sock drawer. :rolleyes: Chin music is not against the rules. It’s perfectly legal to bring the heater high and tight. If ya mess up and hit the guy, he gets first base. If you do it right, the pitch will be called a ball, and everybody in the stadium will know what just happened and why it happened. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/3560 "2010-10-14T20:30:20Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Chin music is not against the rules. It’s perfectly legal to bring the heater high and tight. If ya mess up and hit the guy, he gets first base. If you do it right, the pitch will be called a ball, and everybody in the stadium will know what just happened and why it happened. Ah, sorry, I assumed that “chin music” meant “hit the guy in the face with the ball.” And I still see that this is an intended potential outcome. You do know that the point of balls is to reward the batter when the pitcher isn’t throwing the ball where they should be according to the rules of the game, right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480.md?page=177) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480.md?page=179)