# New WoW General Discussion Thread 6/8/10 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 9, 2010, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480 "2010-06-09T00:30:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 301
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/6002 "2010-12-09T05:42:23Z")
Okay, after the message “REALLY send…” and clicking, I then saw “Target is unfriendly” when I just now tried again with another small amount. Guess I didn’t notice the first time and just logged out and clicked back to Tanus in Eversong. Also, I just remembered (!) that I created Tanus as a Horde Blood Elf so that I could join y’all in BDL sometime… Thanks, **Oak**. Q ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/6003 "2010-12-09T06:19:04Z")
I just deleted 3 toons and will take another look at creating more later. I figure that since I’m having a lot of trouble with game logistics anyway, it wouldn’t benefit me to have a bunch of them just sitting doing nothing. I did keep “Tailspin” and “Sugrfoot” my female warrior and DK respectively. I think all us guys oughta have a female toon just to keep in touch with our feminine side, don’t y’all? 😉 “Horaz” is in honor of my best friend in Germany, Peter, and that is Peter’s nickname. [![](https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff71/Drummerboy49/toonroster.jpg) ](https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff71/Drummerboy49/toonroster.jpg) Quasi ---
**Author:** ![martu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@martu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martu)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/6004 "2010-12-09T12:13:40Z")
> [@Quasimodem](#): > > I just deleted 3 toons and will take another look at creating more later. I figure that since I’m having a lot of trouble with game logistics anyway, it wouldn’t benefit me to have a bunch of them just sitting doing nothing. > > I did keep “Tailspin” and “Sugrfoot” my female warrior and DK respectively. I think all us guys oughta have a female toon just to keep in touch with our feminine side, don’t y’all? 😉 Well if one has a female Blood Elf it’s keeping in touch with something that’s for sure. I do know that my female belf hunter has had more haircuts than all of my other characters combined, I really should hand in my “man card” somewhere. Real life got in the way of wow for me over the last week or so which was bad timing but nothing that could be avoided. I was stuck without my laptop so played on my father’s crummy one without add-ons, levelled up my Forsaken priest to Hillsbrad, loving the story so far. Sylvanas has pretty much lost it and I love her even more for that, as she says she’s doing it for the Horde so what’s the problem? 🙂 Got home yesterday and played my mains, getting used to the z-axis in Vash’jir will take a while but it’s fantastic looking, Mount Hyjal was way too busy for my warlock but I did some mining and made good Gold. Am I right in thinking there are portals back to the new zones from SW? If so where do you end up? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/6005 "2010-12-09T13:02:36Z")
> [@Quasimodem](#): > > Okay, after the message “REALLY send…” and clicking, I then saw “Target is unfriendly” when I just now tried again with another small amount. Guess I didn’t notice the first time and just logged out and clicked back to Tanus in Eversong. > > Also, I just remembered (!) that I created Tanus as a Horde Blood Elf so that I could join y’all in BDL sometime… > > Thanks, **Oak**. > > Q Did you create Tanus on Alex or on Cairne, **Quasi**? BDL is on Cairne, so if Tanus is on Alex, he’s not going to be able to join the guild…he has to be on the same realm. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/6006 "2010-12-09T14:23:45Z")
Did get to play much of the new content last night, but I’m having fun in Vash’jir. Still occasionally get in a spot where mobs are respawning faster than I can kill them, but it’s not too bad. I’m looking forward to discovering ToT so I can run it a couple of times this weekend. If I want to do Blackrock Caverns do I have to go to Hyjal (if that’s where it is) and find it first? ETA: Also played around with Archeology and dug up a bunch of stuff in Hinterlands. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/6007 "2010-12-09T14:52:59Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Did get to play much of the new content last night, but I’m having fun in Vash’jir. Still occasionally get in a spot where mobs are respawning faster than I can kill them, but it’s not too bad. I ran into that briefly in Hyjal - I decided to just quest in my tank gear/spec, since it’s actually all gemmed and enchanted and I haven’t even touched my dps spec since 4.01. Which has the disadvantage of taking a bit longer to kill stuff (sometimes longer than it takes to spawn) but the advantage that I’m INVINCIBLE and the three critters beating up on me don’t actually lower my health at all (and only sometimes break through my blood shield thingy). ---
**Author:** ![kushiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kushiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kushiel)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/6008 "2010-12-09T15:06:37Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > If I want to do Blackrock Caverns do I have to go to Hyjal (if that’s where it is) and find it first? I haven’t actually done the dungeon, but there’s a guy in Hyjal that has a super-duper transportation thinger that portals you to and from Blackrock. General chat channel is so horrible right now. I want to punch everyone. It’s just a bunch of people asking the most simple question and being like, ‘where do I find [xx] for this quest?!’. Maybe if you tried to play the damn game you’d find out. Why yes, first expansion for me, why do you ask? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/6009 "2010-12-09T15:07:00Z")
Yeah, I’m questing in holy gear/spec (I’ve never bothered to dual-spec on this toon, though I am considering it now). So nothing can kill me but I’m not exactly burning through mobs either. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/6010 "2010-12-09T15:09:03Z")
I’m also pondering whether to run my priest in shadow mode or as Mr. Smitey the Archangel. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/6011 "2010-12-09T15:52:47Z")
> [@Quasimodem](#): > > “Portal to Stormwind” (Ironforge etc) in Dal: How come when I click on it, I get “You cannot use that item”? They appear right in the middle of the street? Some mage cast that portal. You have to be grouped with that mage to use them. ---
**Author:** ![Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angel_of_the_lord/32/2949_2.png) [@Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angel_of_the_Lord)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/6012 "2010-12-09T16:11:27Z")
I just have one tiny little problem with Vashj’ir. Spoilers ahoy! [spoiler]I have died in both turtles. One was due to me deciding to ride in a straight line to a turn-in. There was a drop. I went to about a quarter health. Then I aggro’d creation. The other time, I just aggro’d creation. Now, the thing about dying in the turtles is that it’s almost impossible to find that pissy little entrance while you’re a ghost, because everything is freaking monochromatic, and I navigate water with all the acuity of a drunken dogpaddler. So that’s two rez sicknesses and repair bills and 10 minute waits. Of course, it was almost worth it for the look I got when I said to my computer, “why can’t you put a cemetery _inside_ the goddamn turtle!”[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/6013 "2010-12-09T16:11:39Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > Our guild had the same thing happen. Got to level 2 on the first day… bounced back to level 1 (Guildy said that Blizz had altered how guild xp was calculated for getting guild achievements _shrug_) and it clawed back up to 2 last night. We’re all waiting to see what level it’ll be today. 🙂 > > Oh, and Blizz, enough with the “You have maxxed out your guild rep for the week” messages! 🙂 (Seems there’s a limit on how much rep gain a player can get with their guild faction each week. Based on last night I’d guess it’s 3,500 points. Other factions don’t have limits, why do guilds?) :dubious: Yes it was because of the reset due to guild achievements no longer granting guild XP above the daily limit. I’m not really sure about this change, since it basically means every medium-to-large guild will ding level 25 on the same damn day, and the realm first will just be who has enough people ready to turn in 25 quests at 3am on that day. 😕 As for why there is a personal reputation limit, it’s basically because the whole point of guild rep is to encourage guild loyalty You can’t buy the cool guild-leveling based rewards until your guild reputation is high enough, and they don’t want people to be able to grind to exalted in a few days just to buy mounts, etc, with a guild they didn’t even help level, or leave over minor disagreements. It also discourages people from selling guild rewards (since the buyer still has to wait however many weeks to buy them). > [@Skammer](#): > > If I want to do Blackrock Caverns do I have to go to Hyjal (if that’s where it is) and find it first? Yes, you have to find it. No, it’s not in Hyjal. It’s in Blackrock Mountain, near where the Blackrock Spire entrance is IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![FlightlessBird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/cdc98d/32.png) [@FlightlessBird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlightlessBird)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/6014 "2010-12-09T16:29:00Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Some mage cast that portal. You have to be grouped with that mage to use them. I popped into Org and started getting hit up for ports. Character A asked for a port to Dal so I invited him and opened the portal. Char B then asked for a port to Dal, so I invited him. He was able to click immediately (without paying or tipping). So if you watch someone open a portal you can then be invited and use it. Hey **Quasi,** create a new Horde character on Cairne and those in the BDL will hook you up with bags and money. You can even name him Tanus (I think, cause I’m not sure what would happen if you tried to send a BOA to ‘Tanus’ – anyone know?) Now an open question: How do I gain Guild-Rep? Do I need to be in positive standing with the guild to gain Guild XP? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/6015 "2010-12-09T16:32:07Z")
> [@FlightlessBird](#): > > Now an open question: > How do I gain Guild-Rep? Do I need to be in positive standing with the guild to gain Guild XP? As far as I can tell, to gain rep you just need to be a member of a guild and do quests. My lowbie goblin was getting a big fat 1 rep point per quest; Muz was getting about 1/4 of the regular rep reward questing in Hyjal. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/6016 "2010-12-09T16:40:26Z")
Yes, I was on my 74 paladin in Borean Tundra last night and he got a couple hundred guild rep points. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/6017 "2010-12-09T16:57:38Z")
> [@FlightlessBird](#): > > Now an open question: > How do I gain Guild-Rep? Do I need to be in positive standing with the guild to gain Guild XP? There are two different things here, Guild Reputation and Guild XP. Guild Reputation is personal, and is your standing with the guild. It affects what guild rewards you can purchase (after the guild has earned them). It is earned every time you turn in a quest, basically. It is capped per-week (although there appeared to be a reset some time on Tuesday, because I got two weeks worth already). The cap seems to be 3,500 per week, which would mean 12 weeks to Exalted, if I’m doing the math correctly. Guild XP is what causes the guild to level, and get new rewards (5% XP boost is Level 2, for example). Every toon in the guild contributes a fraction of their own XP as Guild XP. So, doing anything that would generate XP adds to Guild XP. It is capped daily, resetting at around 3 PST. Originally completing guild achievements (things like Guild runs of Heroics, for example, or the Kill 100,000 critters one) would also generate Guild XP, but this has been turned off. Guild achievements also sometimes have their own rewards. As far as I can tell guild rank has no effect on any of these. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/6018 "2010-12-09T17:00:57Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Guild Reputation is personal, and is your standing with the guild. It affects what guild rewards you can purchase (after the guild has earned them). It is earned every time you turn in a quest, basically. It is capped per-week (although there appeared to be a reset some time on Tuesday, because I got two weeks worth already). The cap seems to be 3,500 per week, which would mean 12 weeks to Exalted, if I’m doing the math correctly. Any idea how exactly this is affected by level? I know that my goblin running the lowbie areas was basically getting the minimum (1 point per quest) while my 80 in the new areas was getting about 1/4 of the rep he got for the main quest (Guardians of Hyjal or whatever), which I assume was the max; any idea how it works for level 30-ish characters? (I could just log in my druid and see for myself, but if someone already knows that would be nice.) ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/6019 "2010-12-09T17:08:29Z")
> [@Quasimodem](#): > > What if y’all wanted to take a look at everything I have in the auction through Double L ( **Wollkie** )? AFAIK there is no method to search the AH by people who posted the auctions. > [@Jas09](#): > > So there you go: Dodge-\>Hit, Parry-\>Expertise. Well, except that Hit and Expertise are also stats that tanks use. Crit and Haste would probably be more like it. > [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > I’ve sorta been formulating a theory about these people who simple Will. Not. Dismount. unless they absolutely have to. I think it’s simple insecurity. They’re insecure about whether they’re “good” players or not, and having an epic flying mount represents “legitimacy” to them, and constantly sitting atop that drake reassures them that they’re “legitimate” players. I think that’s absolutely inaccurate. I don’t dismount because every time I do, that’s another, what, three seconds to mount up again? It’s a pain in the ass. Really, even when the NPCs are swarming with characters (flagged characters, even, mind you, because I’m on a PvP server), I have \*no \*trouble interacting with them. My informed guess is that if you are, you just need to wiggle your mouse around more. > [@Quasimodem](#): > > Since the AH is not as busy as it was before Cata, I thought that instead of farming leather and spider silk, I’d work only on money for a while Better bet than farming leather from the old Northrend zones: Go farm in the new areas. The new mats are going to be going for fairly high prices for a while. Alternatively, farm mid-level materials. I’d say anything from the 40s to the 60s in Azeroth and all of Outland will probably sell pretty well, with people leveling their new alts. > [@Quasimodem](#): > > “The Alliance needs you…” is all I get when I click on the notices on the board in SW. i thought there would be different quests there? Those are just breadcrumb quests to get you started on new zones. You won’t get quests there regularly–it’s just to lead you to new areas when you level up a bit. For instance, you get the quests for Hyjal and Vashj’ir at 80, and Deepholme at 82. > [@Quasimodem](#): > > “Portal to Stormwind” (Ironforge etc) in Dal: How come when I click on it, I get “You cannot use that item”? They appear right in the middle of the street? Those are portals that were actually created by a Mage. Those portals can only be used by someone who is in a party or raid with the Mage, while they are in the group. (If they weren’t in the group when the portal was cast, but join before it disappears, they can use it. If they were in the group when the portal was cast, but then leave before clicking on it, they can’t use it.) > [@Apollyon](#): > > Oh, and Blizz, enough with the “You have maxxed out your guild rep for the week” messages! I am about to be your new best friend. Love me forever. **NoGuildReputationWarning** : [NoGuildReputationWarning (Obsolete) : Character Advancement : World of Warcraft AddOns](http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info18981-1.1.html) It hides every “max reputation” message after the first for each play period. > [@kushiel](#): > > Speaking of land mounts, guess who got Reins of the Swift Spectral Tiger with their loot card? Arrrrrrrrgh, I am burning up with jealousy! Congratulations! All I got was stupidface Path of Cenarius. > [@Quasimodem](#): > > In keeping with my plans to work some other toons, tonight I levelled my Blood Elf Rogue **Tanus** from 1 to 7. He didn’t have a lot of money for gear, so **Wollkie** sent him 50 g’s. The only items you can mail across factions are ones that “bind to account”: mainly Heirloom items, plus a handful of pets. Regular items and money cannot be mailed. > [@Clawdio](#): > > Kinda crazy how many BOE blues seem to be dropping in the dungeons. I got really excited to see a blue BOE on my first dungeon run… until more just kept dropping. Constantly. I send them to my pocket healer to DE–it’s not even worth it to try to sell them on my server. > [@Quasimodem](#): > > I think all us guys oughta have a female toon just to keep in touch with our feminine side, don’t y’all? I have a couple of male toons, myself. Took me a couple of years to roll them, though–it’s historically been rare enough that I was able to play female characters that I really took advantage of it for my first batches of alts. > [@martu](#): > > Am I right in thinking there are portals back to the new zones from SW? If so where do you end up? Yes, that island in the northeast corner of Stormwind has portals to the various new zones that are unlocked as you take the original methods of transportation to each zone (e.g., the boat to Vashj’ir). I haven’t used them enough to be certain, but my WAG is that where you’re ported to depends on what quests you’ve completed/how you’re phased, so that you’re dropped in the same general place you left off. > [@FlightlessBird](#): > > How do I gain Guild-Rep? Do I need to be in positive standing with the guild to gain Guild XP? For sure you get it from completing quests. Possibly just from gaining XP, period. I wouldn’t doubt that PvPing, killing dungeon or raid bosses, and completing Achievements will also factor in. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/6020 "2010-12-09T17:18:47Z")
Ack, I forgot to make my own post as I was replying to everyone else’s! First, I want to call out a link that I put in the previous post, because it did get buried a bit in the Wall o’Text: [NoGuildReputationWarning](http://www.wowinterface.com/download...18981-1.1.html): This is a new addon that does exactly one thing–it hides every alert you receive, after the first per play period, that you’ve received your maximum amount of guild rep for the week. * * * Leveled a bit more yesterday. Hit 82 and ran Stonecore and Vortex Pinnacle once each–where I finally started replacing tanking gear. Two new rings, new pants, new helm, new shoulders… I had to swap out my 277 chest for my 264 T10 one so that I could keep my two-piece bonus. While I was running an AH scan, I took the time to compile a spreadsheet of rep rewards that I’ll probably want to pick up, and based on that decided that I should be grinding Hyjal rep first, because there are two pieces that I’ll be able to use at 83 from them. So, I burned through enough quests there to get me to Friendly so I could pick up the tabard. Agenda for tonight will be to grind XP and rep through dungeons. Stonecore isn’t always much to look at, but some of the bosses have great models; VP is just plain gorgeous, and I love the method of transporting you from platform to platform! If you are a DPS with an interrupt/silence, especially a ranged one: for the love of god, please **use it**. If there is a caster hanging around outside of the pack, silence it so it runs in to the tank. If there is a healer casting heals, interrupt them. It makes the runs go so much more smoothly when the tank isn’t the only one doing these things. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/6021 "2010-12-09T17:21:24Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > I think that’s absolutely inaccurate. I don’t dismount because every time I do, that’s another, what, three seconds to mount up again? It’s a pain in the ass. > > Really, even when the NPCs are swarming with characters (flagged characters, even, mind you, because I’m on a PvP server), I have \*no \*trouble interacting with them. My informed guess is that if you are, you just need to wiggle your mouse around more. Tsk. For someone making informed guesses, I’m surprised you don’t know it’s 1.5 seconds to mount as of patch 3.2 rather than 3. 😃 The basic point is the same, though; why dismount if you don’t have to? You’ll probably just have to mount up again in a few seconds. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480.md?page=300) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480.md?page=302)