# New WoW General Discussion Thread 6/8/10 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 9, 2010, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480 "2010-06-09T00:30:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 452
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/9022 "2011-04-19T19:32:37Z")
> [@ArrMatey](#): > > Upon further checking, there -will- be maelstrom crystals available. Yay! > [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Yup, there will be Maelstroms for purchase with points. There will also be lots and lots of Maelstroms coming out of the new dungeons, since those drop epics that are below the level of what you can get from VP or raiding, so a lot of them are going to be getting sharded. That’s great news! Finally my priest will be able to make some of the high-level enchants (assuming I can move the crystals from my pally to my priest). > [@Daedelus](#): > > Good luck on that. Archaeology is a cruel mistress, though you can definitely get lucky with it. It took me a little over 100 NE combines for my doll, but I know people who are still going for it after 400+. Same with Zin’rokh. Not to be completely discouraging, but just want to make sure you know what you’re in for, especially since Zin’rokh is the only Troll rare artifact. I don’t know how many NE combines I’ve done looking for that damn doll, but it’s way, way up there. The ring at least alleviates some of the pain. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/9023 "2011-04-19T19:58:01Z")
What’s funny is that now that I’ve relieved the pressure on myself to get the Vial of the Sands recipe, I actually want to work on Archaeology again. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/9024 "2011-04-19T19:59:25Z")
Should my strategy be to only dig at Troll sites if they are available? Is one continent better than another when it comes to the number of Troll sites? ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/9025 "2011-04-19T20:09:08Z")
Check the Archaeology page at Wowpedia. They have a breakdown of how many total Troll sites they are, as well as how they’re split between continents. The thing is that there are always X sites active on a given continent. Any other race’s site, once completed, could be replaced by a Troll site; any Troll site, once completed, could be replaced by another race’s site. There are as-yet vague plans to make it easier to focus on a particular race, but for now, your best bet is to just pick the continent with the most Troll sites and dig as much as you can. You probably want to weight Troll sites more heavily than other races, but you don’t want to neglect the other races completely, especially if they make up the majority of currently active sites. ---
**Author:** ![ArrMatey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrmatey/32/3522_2.png) [@ArrMatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArrMatey)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/9026 "2011-04-19T20:12:48Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > That’s great news! Finally my priest will be able to make some of the high-level enchants (assuming I can move the crystals from my pally to my priest). They’re not BoP, so you should be able to. Oh, and use them to make Magic Lanterns, too! (Yes, I paid several hundred for a MC so I could make a pet for my main. 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/9027 "2011-04-19T20:23:29Z")
I’m assuming it’s a cross-faction problem. If so, the way to get around that is to have a friend help you mule them across the neutral AH. (Alternatively, you can buy someone on one faction that sells for more on the other, mule \*that \*across, sell it, and use the proceeds to buy crystals.) ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/9028 "2011-04-19T21:06:46Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Check the Archaeology page at Wowpedia. They have a breakdown of how many total Troll sites they are, as well as how they’re split between continents. The thing is that there are always X sites active on a given continent. Any other race’s site, once completed, could be replaced by a Troll site; any Troll site, once completed, could be replaced by another race’s site. There are as-yet vague plans to make it easier to focus on a particular race, but for now, your best bet is to just pick the continent with the most Troll sites and dig as much as you can. You probably want to weight Troll sites more heavily than other races, but you don’t want to neglect the other races completely, especially if they make up the majority of currently active sites. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction…[Eastern Kingdoms](http://www.wowpedia.org/Archaeology#Zones_and_dig_sites) has the greatest chance of spawning a troll site. I’m currently at 250 in my skill level, so this should work for quite a while. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/9029 "2011-04-19T21:22:45Z")
> [@Yeticus\_Rex](#): > > Ok, I can answer my own question, [Zin’rokh, Destroyer of Worlds](http://www.wowhead.com/item=64377) (troll) seems to be a great melee dps weapon. > [@Daedelus](#): > > Good luck on that. Archaeology is a cruel mistress, though you can definitely get lucky with it. It took me a little over 100 NE combines for my doll, but I know people who are still going for it after 400+. Same with Zin’rokh. Not to be completely discouraging, but just want to make sure you know what you’re in for, especially since Zin’rokh is the only Troll rare artifact. I still haven’t even sniffed that one yet. I did actually see somebody carrying one though, so I can confirm the thing actually exists. In the meantime, I’ve been grinding Tol Barad rep via the dailies, aiming for that 2h sword they offer. I should hit Revered with them today, and a couple more days will give me enough TB Comendations to buy the sword. I’m so tired of my ret pally getting stuck with axes! > [@Yeticus\_Rex](#): > > Should my strategy be to only dig at Troll sites if they are available? > Is one continent better than another when it comes to the number of Troll sites? Also, Zul’drak in Northrend is obviously entirely troll sites. For my own main’s archaeology, I’ve recently completed both the [Puzzle Box of Yogg-Saron](http://www.wowhead.com/item=64482) and the [Pendant of the Scarab Storm](http://www.wowhead.com/item=64881). I thinking about maxing my archaeology on my other two 85’s that are on my main’s server, on the off chance that having three separate RNGs going might give me better results. Also, my draenei prot pally dinged 60 last night 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/9030 "2011-04-19T21:55:58Z")
Yeti, I’ve definitely seen that EK has the most Troll (and Dwarf) sites. Kalimdor only has a few of each. On the other hand, Kalimdor is best if you are focusing on Night Elf or Fossils (or, obviously, Tol’Vir). ---
**Author:** ![hdc\_bst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/9f8e36/32.png) [@hdc\_bst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hdc_bst)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/9031 "2011-04-19T22:25:36Z")
> [@Yeticus\_Rex](#): > > Thanks for pointing me in the right direction…[Eastern Kingdoms](http://www.wowpedia.org/Archaeology#Zones_and_dig_sites) has the greatest chance of spawning a troll site. I’m currently at 250 in my skill level, so this should work for quite a while. To maximize your chances at Zin’Rokh, you should not do any Troll solves until you reach Archaeology 450 (or whatever the level ZR is first available at). Instead you should build up 200 fragments, then level archaeology using other races. The reason for this is explained [here](http://www.winterwolves.org/index.html/_/world-of-warcraft/i-had-it-in-my-hand-archaeology-rares-explained-r27). I believe it’s still accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/9032 "2011-04-19T22:49:00Z")
Thanks all for the input…I learned far more in the few previous posts than I did over the last few months about Arch. I might have a few Troll solves (no more than 5, I believe), but my alt hasn’t solved any (well, maybe one) and since it’s BOA, I can get experience for the digs on my alts while trying the strategy from **hdc\_bst** ’s link. Thanks all! BTW…what does **hdc\_bst** stand for? ---
**Author:** ![ArrMatey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrmatey/32/3522_2.png) [@ArrMatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArrMatey)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/9033 "2011-04-19T23:16:14Z")
> [@hdc\_bst](#): > > The reason for this is explained [here](http://www.winterwolves.org/index.html/_/world-of-warcraft/i-had-it-in-my-hand-archaeology-rares-explained-r27). I believe it’s still accurate. Reading that link gave me a slight headache. Can anyone confirm / deny / explain the math involved? ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/9034 "2011-04-20T13:06:59Z")
I can’t get to the link from here, but my WAG is that it’s something to do with the fact that any Troll solves pre-450 (or whatever level) Arch are “wasted” if you’re specifically going for the axe, since all of the fragments you use will have zero chance of producing it. If you instead save as many fragments as you can and then chain-solve once you hit the threshold, all but the first artifact will have a chance to be Zin’rokh. ETA: Of course, this also means you’ll level slightly slower, since you’ll be gathering Troll fragments but not getting the skillup points from using them. The math probably comes in from comparing the time you lose leveling to the extra chances you gain. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/9035 "2011-04-20T13:29:23Z")
Actually what the article argues is that when the RNG determines what artifact you are going to get, it will not assign you a Common item that you have already completed unless you have already completed them all for that race. Since you can get Common items at any level, but the Epic rares are unavailable until 450, the article claims that by waiting until 450 to do your combines you are increasing the chances of getting an epic rare because each time you combine a Common there are fewer Commons for the RNG to land on, increasing the odds of getting an Epic. It seems to me he’s building a case on pure speculation - I don’t think it’s confirmed that the RNG works the way he thinks it does. ---
**Author:** ![Enilno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58f4c7/32.png) [@Enilno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enilno)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/9036 "2011-04-20T13:49:34Z")
> [@ArrMatey](#): > > Reading that link gave me a slight headache. Can anyone confirm / deny / explain the math involved? I don’t believe the article is accurate. It’s just speculation, and doesn’t match the relative scarcity of Zin’rokh and other rare epics. I doubt Blizzard would use such an inconsistant method of rolling. That said, there is an advantage of reserving fragments and solving other races first to level if your goal is to minimize the total amount of solves across all races. Solves below 450 skill will not give you the 85 epics. Solves of races that don’t give you the item you want are essentially useless for you after 450 skill. By reserving fragments, you maximize the number of useful solves. ---
**Author:** ![Palooka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/palooka/32/2902_2.png) [@Palooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palooka)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/9037 "2011-04-20T13:58:30Z")
> [@ArrMatey](#): > > Reading that link gave me a slight headache. Can anyone confirm / deny / explain the math involved? The numbers are wrong for their own rules. If you have 14 common items and a 1% sword, the odds of each common item aren’t 7/99. They’re (99/14)/99 each. That carries through to give you odds that look like [this](http://i.imgur.com/6kgDW.png). The odds of having the sword before the common artifacts are short of the 40-something they said. You can see it for 100 attempts [here](http://i.imgur.com/ctDkM.png). I think if they can’t do the math and they don’t have any evidence that it applies to the realm, you shouldn’t listen to it. ---
**Author:** ![aktep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f0a364/32.png) [@aktep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aktep)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/9038 "2011-04-20T14:21:34Z")
I have a feeling the math for archeology rares looks more like ```auto //troll roll = Random(1000) if (roll ==1) and (ArchLevel>=450) then Item=GetItemInfo(Zin'rokh...) elsif (2 >= roll >= 100) and (ArchLevel>=150) and patch >=4.1 then Item=GetItem(new troll rare) else Item=GetCommonArchItem(troll) ``` and the GetCommonArchItem(race) would determine which commons you had already done and pick an appropriate one. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/9039 "2011-04-20T14:44:09Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > It seems to me he’s building a case on pure speculation - I don’t think it’s confirmed that the RNG works the way he thinks it does. Yeah, I’d say he’s completely wrong. Having created all of the Common artifacts doesn’t increase your chances of getting a Rare, I don’t think; all it means is you’ll do one full run through the Common list before you make a duplicate of anything. My impression has been that your chances of getting a Common vs. a Rare are exactly the same regardless of whether or not you’ve completed all of the Commons. (Unless, of course, you’ve already completed all Rares for that race, in which case your odds of getting another one are zero.) ETA: I think **aktep** ’s algorithm is pretty close to what actually happens, sort of a trickle-down priority. You have a small chance to get a Rare item, which is selected out of a list of available Rares for that race, which may have different weights to come up even in the Rare list; if a Rare doesn’t pop or you’ve completed all of them, it then selects a Common item. Only at that point (i.e., after it’s already been decided that you’re not getting a Rare) does it look at what Commons you’ve completed. Again, though, this is pure speculation. ---
**Author:** ![hdc\_bst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/9f8e36/32.png) [@hdc\_bst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hdc_bst)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/9040 "2011-04-20T14:45:00Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > It seems to me he’s building a case on pure speculation - I don’t think it’s confirmed that the RNG works the way he thinks it does. Agreed, it’s all speculation. But would you rather be in a cargo cult or no cult at all? 🙂 I remember seeing another presentation of the same material from an independent (and more persuasive) source, but can’t seem to find it now. I think the only way to determine if the re-roll method works like the winterwolves idea or **aktep** ’s idea is with a more robust data-mining capability than wowhead currently employs. Like **Enilno** pointed out, having max fragments available when you hit 450 does have a small benefit. If you’re targeting Zin’Rokh, you can either not solve troll artifacts, or only solve them when you’re near the fragment limit. As for myself, I’m gonna hold onto my rabbit’s foot and not solve any. ---
**Author:** ![hdc\_bst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/9f8e36/32.png) [@hdc\_bst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hdc_bst)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480/9041 "2011-04-20T15:04:03Z")
> [@Yeticus\_Rex](#): > > BTW…what does **hdc\_bst** stand for? It involves some embarrassing dyslexia, I’ll explain in game.:o [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480.md?page=451) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-wow-general-discussion-thread-6-8-10/542480.md?page=453)