# New Years = Jesus' Bris? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 2, 2005, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-years-jesus-bris/282691 "2005-01-02T14:36:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-years-jesus-bris/282691/21 "2005-01-03T02:04:33Z")
> [@Twiddle](#): > > I spent all day yesterday thinking my mother-inlaw may be insane. The first thing she sad on the phone to us yesterday was “Happy Circumcision Day!” When I asked her what the heck she meant, she said that New Years Day is actually celebrating Jesus’ bris. Maybe the traditional ball drops are smbolic of that fateful event. elmwood \<-- :wally ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-years-jesus-bris/282691/22 "2005-01-03T02:05:06Z")
> [@](#): > > If it was in fact ordered by the Church, they may have cited the religious association with the “octave of Christmas” as a justification. If anyone has a cite one way or the other, I’d love to see it. The Church New Year is Sep. 1, which is when the year count from the beginning of creation (five thousand, seven hundred something years ago, according to the Orthodox reckoning) increases another year. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-years-jesus-bris/282691/23 "2005-01-03T02:16:02Z")
And what do they serve at the Feast of the Circumcision, calamari? ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-years-jesus-bris/282691/24 "2005-01-03T02:46:17Z")
> [@](#): > > And what do they serve at the Feast of the Circumcision, calamari? Since it’s also the feast of St. Basil, it’s customary to eat a lot of dishes cooked with basil, and fresh basil as well. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-years-jesus-bris/282691/25 "2005-01-03T06:12:33Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Any clue **why** it’s special to her? I sort of implied that question in the “Catholics” part of my earlier post. I can fully understand commemorating the Immaculate Conception, the Annunciation, the Assumption… but what about Jan. 1 is particularly oriented towards Mary? Hey, imagine you’re a Mom, watching your baby boy get clipped… wouldn’t you be damn solemn!?! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![MaceMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@MaceMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaceMan)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-years-jesus-bris/282691/26 "2005-01-03T07:05:17Z")
I thought Jewish law required circumcision eight days after a boy’s birth. I guess this is another one of those times where the ancients would have said he was already one day old at the moment of birth? I marvel at the fact that people were able to live without the concept of zero for so long. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-years-jesus-bris/282691/27 "2005-01-03T07:18:43Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Also, Catholic parents probably got tired of evading their children’s question as to what was that “circumcision” thing. Serious :eek: moment when they can avoid the subject no longer, I’m telling ya… I remember the modest young nun who was my first grade teacher, being confusingly evasive when trying to explain what the feast celebrated. Apparently it was about snipping off a piece of skin “near His thighs,” as she put it. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-years-jesus-bris/282691/28 "2005-01-03T07:25:47Z")
> [@Jman](#): > > Sounds pretty odd to me, espcecially since Jesus’ birth wasn’t even on Dec 25. Most people put it in the March - April time frame. It was moved to December to coincide with Pagan rituals in order to try and bring them to Christianity. That has been the conventional wisdom for some time. But [the opposite](http://www.andrewsullivan.com/index.php?dish_inc=archives/2004_12_19_dish_archive.html#110391008833127262) may have been true. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-years-jesus-bris/282691/29 "2005-01-03T15:07:37Z")
MaceMan: > [@](#): > > I thought Jewish law required circumcision eight days after a boy’s birth. No, it requires circumcision on the baby’s _eighth day of life_, which would be seven days after the birthday, which is the first day of life. > [@](#): > > I marvel at the fact that people were able to live without the concept of zero for so long. Living without the concept of using a mathematical placeholder in a decimal number system does not mean that not having a concept of “nothing” or, in this case, “no time.” ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-years-jesus-bris/282691/30 "2005-01-03T21:17:48Z")
Here is [some more information](http://www.astrodatabank.com/DCH/60newyearsday.htm). Between the Dark Ages and the Sixteenth Century, almost all Christian countries drifted away from celebrating New Year’s on January 1. The Catholic Church seems to have encouraged this drift, since January 1 was associated with earlier pagan New Year rites. Beginning in 1508, however, a wave of countries began reverting to January 1: > [@](#): > > Germany, Venice, Alsace, 1508 on > Hungary, 1520 on > Rome, 1525 > Holland, 1533 on > France in part, 1563 (edict of Charles IX) > France, 1567 (year 1566, 14 Apr-31 Dec) > Low Countries, 1575 > Burgundy, 1576 > Beauvais, Louvaine, 1580 > Scotland, 1600, but used Old Style calendar These switches (except for the last) predated the adoption of the Gregorian Calendar, and were _not_ driven by the Catholic Church. The Church didn’t get around to recognizing January 1 as New Year’s until 1622. It’s easy to see why standardization might have been desirable in the 1500’s; it was an early era of globalization what with the printing press and increasing international trade. But **why January 1**? Europe rediscovered its pre-Christian heritage during the Renaissance, and pagan models seemed less disreputable during this era (as can be seen in Renaissance art and architecture). It may be that reverting to the Roman New Year’s presented the easiest compromise among the hodgepodge of medieval New Year dates. But I’m not sure; research continues. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-years-jesus-bris/282691/31 "2005-01-04T00:35:22Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > This, naturally, prompted us inquisitive youngsters to ask what a “circumcision” was. The nuns utilized the same elaborate sidestep they used when explaining to us what the sixth commandment was (“Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery” – and before you say anything, note that the Catholics humber the commandments differently than the Protestants or Jews). Oh, and that was another good one in my context… in Spanish, when using the archaic language of the official version of the catechism, that commandment is “No fornicar” (the Latin _fornicatio_ referring generically to all forms of nonmarital or extramarital sex). Boy was THAT one the parents had to run from 😃 ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-years-jesus-bris/282691/32 "2005-01-04T00:40:55Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Oh, and that was another good one in my context… in Spanish, when using the archaic language of the official version of the catechism, that commandment is “No fornicar” (the Latin _fornicatio_ referring generically to all forms of nonmarital or extramarital sex). > > Boy was THAT one the parents had to run from 😃 Meaning of course the archaic ritual Spanish that my parents and teachers learned it in – I lived thru when it changed to “Do not commit impure acts” (more obfuscation). And of course, a whole bunch of us wee ones started off believing “Virgin” was actually just Mary’s first name, not really a word that described anything… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-years-jesus-bris/282691.md?page=1)