# New York, New York **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 11, 2002, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/141905 "2002-12-11T01:45:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![NYR407](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bbe5ce/32.png) [@NYR407](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NYR407)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/141905/21 "2002-12-11T14:45:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Biggirl \* > \*\*I guess it’s just one of those things. Like The Bronx. \*\* Not sure if you knew the answer or not but Cecil has it covered. Why is the Bronx called THE Bronx? URL: [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2\_248.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_248.html) GilaB, Brooklyn mail is usually addressed to Brooklyn not the town in Bklyn. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/141905/22 "2002-12-11T15:22:12Z")
My understanding is that the official name of the city is simply “New York,” without any “City” involved. The other U.S. cities mentioned have “City” as an official part of their names. It is just as correct to refer to the Bronx, Brooklyn, etc. as parts of “New York, New York,” as Manhattan. Manhattan is, however, the borough/county of New York. Letters are often addressed to “Bronx, New York,” but a letter sent to a Bronx address labeled “New York, New York” is equally correct. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Attrayant \* > \*\*It’s probably even more common outside of the US. > > Mexico City > Panama City \*\* We had a thread about this a few months ago. The official name of the city of Panamá in Spanish is simply “Panamá” - not “Ciudad de Panamá.” Panama City, Panama is a purely English locution. The same goes for the city of Guatemala. I am not sure about Mexico, because I have seen it labeled on maps as “Ciudad de Mexico” - unlike the other two cities. In Panama most provinces contain a namesake city or town (without any “ciudad de” attached.) This goes for: Panamá, Panamá province (so it’s actually Panamá, Panamá, Panamá) Colón, Colón Coclé, Coclé Los Santos, Los Santos Chiriquí, Chiriquí Bocas del Toro, Bocas del Toro I haven’t located namesake cities in the other four provinces. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/141905/23 "2002-12-11T15:37:34Z")
I’m writing this from Dublin County Dublin Leinster Ireland ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/141905/24 "2002-12-11T18:48:11Z")
In response to the earlier post, yes, Hawaii is the Big Island in the state of Hawaii. It’s also the County of Hawaii. Regarding Panama, Panama, Panama, I’d be interested in knowing which of the cities sharing the names of their states or provinces are also in counties of the same name, producing that effect. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/141905/25 "2002-12-11T19:19:05Z")
AFAIK only New York is understood to mean the city specifically in many contexts. When N.Y. publishers, N.Y. art galleries, N.Y. cultural institutions, N.Y. fashion designers are mentioned we know that the City is meant. Almost as definitely, if someone says they’re going to New York, we can assume that they’re going to the city and not just anywhere in the state. Doesn’t work that way with Oklahoma or Kansas, though. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/141905/26 "2002-12-11T19:28:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dtilque \* > \*\*Just because I didn’t use the e-with-an-accent is no reason to ignore my post. \*\* La whoops. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/141905/27 "2002-12-11T19:43:44Z")
Don’t forget Indiana, Pennsylvania. Oh… ---
**Author:** ![Alto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Alto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alto)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/141905/28 "2002-12-11T20:01:01Z")
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan doesn’t quite count. But it’s close enough that it’s fun to say. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/141905/29 "2002-12-11T22:44:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > Regarding Panama, Panama, Panama, I’d be interested in knowing which of the cities sharing the names of their states or provinces are also in counties of the same name, producing that effect. Oklahoma City is in Oklahoma County which made it at one time Oklahoma, Oklahoma, Oklahoma. But Wyoming, Wyoming is in Albany County. As far as I know, they don’t have counties in Canada, although they used to. So this question no longer applies to Quebec, Quebec. Of the other type, I forgot to list Mississippi City, Mississippi, which no longer exists. It’s now merged with Gulfport. There’s also a town named Mississippi State, Mississippi, conveniently located at Mississippi State University (amazing how these coincidences work). ---
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/141905/30 "2002-12-11T23:13:17Z")
You knew I’d get here eventually, didn’t you? [Grinny] ## Colibri wrote: "My understanding is that the official name of the city is simply “New York,” without any “City” involved. The other U.S. cities mentioned have “City” as an official part of their names. ## It is just as correct to refer to the Bronx, Brooklyn, etc. as parts of “New York, New York,” as Manhattan. Manhattan is, however, the borough/county of New York. Letters are often addressed to “Bronx, New York,” but a letter sent to a Bronx address labeled “New York, New York” is equally correct." Got a lot of nits to pick here. First of all the official name of the place is the “City of New York.” (Yes, with a cap ‘C’.) Believe it or not there was some minor speculation (very minor, but enough to attract press notice) of changing the name when they created the 5-borough city in 1898. The name on the new charter – to no one’s surprise – stayed City of New York. (By the way, said charter which created and named the boroughs, called the northernmost one “The Bronx” – yes, with a cap ‘T’. Obviously, sloppiness has eroded first the cap ‘T’, then the entire word ‘the.’ As an aside, The Bronx was not made its own county until around WWI.) “Manhattan” is a borough name; boroughs are CITY designations. “New York” (as in New York, NY) is the county name for Manhattan; counties are STATE designations. Postal names are, for the most part, designations of convenience, so they CAN’T BE TRUSTED to show true political boundaries. Follow the conventions of the USPS when mailing a letter and don’t deviate or ask questions if you want to get it there. You might be able to make a case that “New York, New York” = 5 boroughs, but it’s a bit of a stretch because that is a county name construction for Manhattan. You’d be better of saying “City of New York” = 5 boroughs. No technical problems there, though some Staten Islanders might look at you funny; nonetheless, you’d be right. Back in 1898 the term of choice for the 5 boroughs as a collective city was “Greater New York,” but that has fallen out of fashion or, these days, is applied to the entire tri-state metro region. ~ stuyguy, who knows about these things [Grinny] ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/141905/31 "2002-12-11T23:50:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by stuyguy \* > \*\* > (By the way, said charter which created and named the boroughs, called the northernmost one “The Bronx” – yes, with a cap ‘T’. Obviously, sloppiness has eroded first the cap ‘T’, then the entire word ‘the.’ \*\* So should I have said “a The Bronx address” (like “an El Paso” address)? 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/141905.md?page=1)