# New York, New York. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 17, 2010, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975 "2010-07-17T00:35:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/41 "2010-07-17T08:50:04Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > There are 30 cities and towns named Franklin, 29 named Clinton and a number of other names attached to more than 20 locations, so adding a state name does sometimes eliminate confusion. There are places named Riverside in 46 of the 50 states. Many are unincorporated localities, though. The states without one are Alaska, Hawaii, Louisiana, and Oklahoma. There used to be a Riverside in OK some 100+ years ago and, if several genealogical documents found on the net are correct, there was one in LA in the same era. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/42 "2010-07-17T09:59:37Z")
Just within our province there are at least three same-named villages whose name means “Spring Water” and at least three same-named villages “Deep Well.” Almost every Province shares a name with its largest city but while the postal address for Lopburi City would be the equivalent of “City District, Lopburi Province”, someone in that Province going to the city might say, confusingly, they’re “going to the Province.” ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/43 "2010-07-17T13:26:28Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > This is an ongoing gripe with the city in North Carolina called Charlotte. Newspapers genearlly have a set of cities that they always “qualify,” and those that they don’t. For instance, they wouldn’t qualify Chicago or Philadelphia. But they still say Charlotte, North Carolina. Charlotte always makes the push that they are big enough and well enough known so they don’t need the qualifier anymore. Charlotte has always been very big on image and wanting to seem like a big city. Another odd thing is that the central part of Charlotte is not called downtown , they call it uptown. The reason? The word “down” has a negative feeling and they don’t want to seem negative. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/44 "2010-07-17T13:49:58Z")
> [@Baron\_Skinley\_Von\_Clipper](#): > > Ok, my turn. > > I say “Los Angeles.” Think fast, where’s that? > > Correct, it’s in California as pretty much everyone on the planet knows. It needs no further explanation. This is the point I was trying to make. Point made. But consider this … Americans have long been considered insular and clueless about all things outside their borders. What you’re seeing is the rough beginnings of us learning to think a bit from a non-American point of view. 30 years ago your American counterpart would have announced “I’m from Houston” and never have thought for a moment about whether that made any sense to you. And 30 years ago it may not have. Now we’re bending over backwards a bit: “Springfield, Illinois. It’s the state capital and near the center of the country, just below one of the Great Lakes.” Soon enough (20 years?) we’ll get the tone right. Meantime, you (the OP) may be well-aquainted with major US cities. But if we ask some villager in Sheepchase-Upon-The-Moors, Nowherechester DN6 9SF where Albuquerque, St. Louis, or Atlanta are, I bet he/she won’t get all three. And those are large cities / metro areas with unique names (other than tiny locales nobody’s heard of). ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/45 "2010-07-17T13:51:58Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > There are places named Riverside in 46 of the 50 states. Many are unincorporated localities, though. The states without one are Alaska, Hawaii, Louisiana, and Oklahoma. There used to be a Riverside in OK some 100+ years ago and, if several genealogical documents found on the net are correct, there was one in LA in the same era. There still is a Riverside county [Riverside County, California - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riverside_County,_California) and city [Riverside, California - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riverside,_California) in the LA area. They date from the 1890s & 1870s respectively. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/46 "2010-07-17T14:47:00Z")
> [@Baron\_Skinley\_Von\_Clipper](#): > > Ok, my turn. > > I say “Los Angeles.” Think fast, where’s that? > > Correct, it’s in California as pretty much everyone on the planet knows. It needs no further explanation. This is the point I was trying to make. As I said before, to Americans, “Los Angeles, California,” in full has the feel of a proper name. We don’t necessarily think we’re explaining something to someone, just giving its full name. Sometimes we say “Obama” by itself, but sometimes we’ll use his full name, Barack Obama, just because it feels appropriate to. Or “U.K.” or “U.S.” as opposed to “United Kingdom” or “United States.” If someone says the full name, do you think “What, do you think I’m stupid?” That feeling carries over to “London, England,” or “Bogota, Colombia,” We don’t necessarily think the listener is stupid. We just sometimes feel it appropriate to use what sounds to our ears as a place’s full name. To American ears, it’s never wrong to specify. ---
**Author:** ![BorgHunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@BorgHunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BorgHunter)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/47 "2010-07-17T19:08:26Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > There still is a Riverside county [Riverside County, California - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riverside_County,_California) and city [Riverside, California - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riverside,_California) in the LA area. They date from the 1890s & 1870s respectively. In context, I believe the LA in that post was meant to be Louisiana, not Los Angeles. ---
**Author:** ![In\_Winnipeg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a8b319/32.png) [@In\_Winnipeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/In_Winnipeg)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/48 "2010-07-17T19:11:25Z")
It’s just a member of being specific, since so few people, we are led to believe, have maps. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/49 "2010-07-17T19:21:23Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I really question the initial assumption. Me too. **Knead** Grover’s Corners Sutton County New Hampshire United States of America North America Western Hemisphere The Earth The Solar System The Universe The Mind of God ---
**Author:** ![Dravin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dravin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dravin)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/50 "2010-07-17T19:58:59Z")
> [@Baron\_Skinley\_Von\_Clipper](#): > > It doesn’t bother me at all, I was just wondering why people feel the need to point it out. Paris is probably not the best example. > New York needs no further explanation, nor does Oklahoma city or Houston. According to Wiki there is a Houston in: Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Ohio and Pennsylvania. Oh, and there is one in Canada and Scotland. > **[Houston (disambiguation)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houston_(disambiguation))** > > Houston is the largest city in the U.S.'s State of Texas. > Houston may also refer to: Miami also isn’t as unique as someone above suggested: > **[Miami (disambiguation)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami_(disambiguation))** > > Miami is a city in the U.S. state of Florida. > Miami may also refer to: > Listed alphabetically by state > See also As far as those cities that do not share a duplicate, such as Los Angeles or Oklahoma City the number of duplicates create a convention. If you grow up with everyone clarifying which Springfield they are from it would be fairly easy to include the state in the name out of habit or a sense of completeness. ---
**Author:** ![jasonh300](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/46a35a/32.png) [@jasonh300](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasonh300)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/51 "2010-07-17T20:40:52Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > Opinion Warning! > > It isn’t that it’s incorrect, but I find it grating when someone says “Canadian City, Canada” rather than “Canadian City, Province”, i. e. Niagara Falls, Canada rather than Niagara Falls, Ontario. It may not be incorrect, but it’s really bad form. You may be able to get away with it with Niagara Falls, since there’s no other Niagara Falls in Canada, (you’re saying Canada to differentiate from Niagara Falls, USA, which is a very important distinction). I’m from New Orleans, Louisiana, and while I could get away with just “New Orleans”, I always specify Louisiana to anyone who’s not from around here. You never know if you’re speaking with someone who’s geographically ignorant. Niagara Falls, Canada, to someone who has never been properly educated, may inspire images of it being a great frozen wasteland at the North Pole. At least they _might_ be able to find ONTARIO on a map. Back to the example of “Paris”…there are 17 Paris’ in the U.S.A. and 2 in Canada, not to mention the BIG one in France. If someone just said “Paris”, I’d assume they were talking about Paris, Kiribati (okay, I’ll admit, I had to look up [Republic of Kiribati](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiribati) to find out where that is). Back to real life, if the person said “Paris, USA”, I would have no useful information without a state added onto that. “Paris, Canada” would give a choice between Ontario and the Yukon, which really aren’t all that close together. On the smaller end of the scale, there’s only one Tylertown (population 1,910) in the United States (in the world?). I can think of only a few dopers who I’d expect to know what state that’s in without looking it up. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/52 "2010-07-17T20:51:52Z")
> [@BorgHunter](#): > > In context, I believe the LA in that post was meant to be Louisiana, not Los Angeles. Indeed, it was. Now if I’d said LA LA Land, then I’d have meant Los Angeles, Louisiana… Actually, there is another Los Angeles in the US (in Texas). BTW, there’s also a number of other New Yorks, including at least 4 in England. Just checking on Wikipedia, it seems there are no fewer than 6 Californias in England and one in Scotland. I knew there was one over there, but seven??? ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/53 "2010-07-17T22:09:37Z")
I was born in Johnstown, PA. I will mention both the city and the state, even though Johnstown is probably familiar to enough people, either from having three devastating floods or from the movie “Slap Shot,” one or the other. Just saying Johnstown without the state might not be enough to narrow it down, especially for people outside of the U.S. It is too small to not need the state after it, and there are at least a couple of other Johnstowns, one in New York and one in Ohio. I currently live in Tucson, and previously lived in Denver. Both cities are large enough that people are familiar with them without having to mention the state. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/54 "2010-07-17T22:16:24Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > How about Rochester? Do I mean the one in NY, or NH? Don’t be silly. You mean the one in Minnesota, where the Mayo Clinic is located. Here’s a fun 'n ez quiz. The following cities are all anchors of [metropolitan areas with more than one million people](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas)– in other words, they’re big cities. Before you look, are you absolutely sure of which state they’re in? Birmingham Columbus Jacksonville Portland Providence Richmond Riverside Rochester When I was studying in Europe, I found to my dismay that most people had never heard of my home town, much less had any idea of where it was. My home town was St. Louis, and about the only thing that made any sense to people was when I said “it’s 500 kilometers from Chicago.” ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/55 "2010-07-17T22:37:50Z")
As a Brit who’d often enough marschalled a drunken chorusline to the Sinatra song at the end of a student disco and who had seen the Scorsese film, I must admit that it was an odd moment on arriving in Penn Station from New Jersey and having the announcer proclaim “New York, New York” as the final destination. First time I actually got the reference. That aside, I’m not really sure it’s any different from us Brits distinguishing between Newcastle-upon-Tyne and Newcastle-under-Lyme, as required. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/56 "2010-07-17T22:40:15Z")
This is reminding me of some (online) discussions with an English friend. She’s well-educated, very intelligent, and has visited the US - and occasionally she’s realized that an idea she had about American geography is entirely wrong. Two that I can think of off the top of my head that are relevant: 1. Maine is in the northeast. She was shocked to realize this. She had mentally decided it was in the Midwest. 2. Buffalo is in New York. She thought it was in…Texas. (Obviously she doesn’t have much experience with Texans and their habit of referring to Texas and what’s in Texas and how large Texas is and how they’re from Texas every ten minutes.) I’ve never heard someone say that they’re from “New York City, New York.” In fact, in my experience, New Yorkers are more likely to go the other way, and assume that everyone in the world is so incredibly familiar with New York that they can say what _neighborhood_ they’re from and I’ll know where that is. Like the one guy I knew who told me he was from Astoria and acted like I should know where that was. (It turned out to be a neighborhood in Queens. I had never been to New York in my life at that point, and I’ve still never been to Queens. Why should I know where Astoria is?) ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/57 "2010-07-17T22:45:38Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > There is a Paris, Texas. And an Odessa in Texas, Canada and Russia. There is also a Paris Ontario. For that matter there is a London England and London Ontario. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/58 "2010-07-17T23:23:52Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > Like the one guy I knew who told me he was from Astoria and acted like I should know where that was. (It turned out to be a neighborhood in Queens. I had never been to New York in my life at that point, and I’ve still never been to Queens. Why should I know where Astoria is?) Astoria is at the mouth of the Columbia River in Oregon – I thought everyone knew that. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/59 "2010-07-17T23:26:06Z")
> [@BorgHunter](#): > > In context, I believe the LA in that post was meant to be Louisiana, not Los Angeles. D’oh!! Pretty obvious to boot \*if \*one actually reads every word of the post one was replying to. One shall have to try that next time. ---
**Author:** ![sugar\_and\_spice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@sugar\_and\_spice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugar_and_spice)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/60 "2010-07-17T23:41:28Z")
I will say I’m from Buffalo NY because there actually is a Buffalo Grove around here, I’ve had people assume “Buffalo” is short for that. And it adds context. Even if they could correctly answer “In which state do the Buffalo Bills play: (a) New Jersey (b) New York © Texas (d) Wyoming”, my saying “\_\_, NY” saves them the mental step of figuring out that I’m talking about the city in another state, not a nearby town or neighborhood they may have heard of once or twice. But I hear places like NY and LA as stand alone city names all the time. I don’t think I ever hear “New York, New York” except on game shows. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975.md?page=4)