# New York, New York. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 17, 2010, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975 "2010-07-17T00:35:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/81 "2010-07-18T18:50:27Z")
> [@Baron\_Skinley\_Von\_Clipper](#): > > It seems that they think I’ve never seen an atlas. How would a stranger know if you have seen an atlas or not. What youa re describing are two things: 1 - Someone giving you the actual coordinates of where they are from. If they are from New Jersey, there is a very good chance they will mention what exit they are from (8 in my case). You should always ask what exit someone from New Jersey is from. 2 - Probably said with pride related not only to their City, but also their State. BTW, do you know what state Kansas City is in? No peeking! ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/82 "2010-07-18T19:13:27Z")
> [@Cardinal](#): > > I cannot make sense of these statements. Indiana, Pennsylvania, where my father’s wife is from. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/83 "2010-07-18T19:26:05Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > umm, well, YEAH! Are you unfamiliar with Paris, Texas? Moscow, Idaho? Vienna, Wisconsin? Dunno about Helsinikis but there’s a fairly large Athens, Georgia as well as a less impressive Rome and Albany in that state; Ontario has a London, Massachusetts has a Cambridge, and Alabama has a pretty respectable Birmingham. > > but New York is “the City”. > > There ain’t no other. A former Bishop of Syracuse NY used to get a kick out of the idea that he could celebrate at the high altar of [St. Peter’s, Rome](http://www.artwanted.com/imageview.cfm?ID=637318), whenever he felt like it. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/84 "2010-07-18T19:26:09Z")
I posted a similar thread a few years ago and got accused of being anti-American. That’s America, USA of course. ---
**Author:** ![jasonh300](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/46a35a/32.png) [@jasonh300](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasonh300)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/85 "2010-07-18T19:54:02Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Forgive the nitpick, but this is s peeve: There are 17 Paris_es_. I looked at that after I posted it and knew it was wrong, but was too tired to actually sit and think about _why_ it was wrong and what to do to correct it. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/86 "2010-07-18T19:57:02Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > I posted a similar thread a few years ago and got accused of being anti-American. It’s 'cause we know you’re anti-American. We can see it in your beady little furriner eyes. ---
**Author:** ![minor7flat5](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minor7flat5/32/258_2.png) [@minor7flat5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minor7flat5)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/87 "2010-07-18T20:37:30Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > If they are from New Jersey, there is a very good chance they will mention what exit they are from (8 in my case). You should always ask what exit someone from New Jersey is from. 7A. Though I was from exit 8 for several years. Of course, when talking to people in Rio de Janeiro, I simply say “near New York” and they get it. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/88 "2010-07-18T20:50:51Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > but New York is “the City”. > > There ain’t no other. Unless you’re in San Francisco. Or St. Louis, which is dividied into “the city” and “the county.” ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/89 "2010-07-18T22:36:33Z")
> [@QuercusMax](#): > > One that’s confused me a few times is Ontario, California. Fedex has some kind of hub there, and there have been a few times I’ve seen packages that originated in California appear to teleport themselves to Ontario in just a few hours, and then make their way back across the US. (I live in Ohio.) Never really got confused for more than a few moments, but I can imagine somebody accidentally traveling to Canada instead of California if they’re not careful. Ontario International Airport is in California, not far from Los Angeles. In fact, the city of Los Angeles owns it; they bought if from the city of Ontario some years ago. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/90 "2010-07-18T23:16:38Z")
I suspect that the “New York, New York” situation arose from the opposite direction than that proposed by the OP. If one says, “I’m from New York,” the first question is liable to be, “The city? Albany?, Buffalo?” In other words, simply saying “New York” can leave the impression that one has only identified the state and not the city. By noting both, the situation is resolved with a single statement. This does not address references to “Houston, Texas” or similar declarations. I’ve never actually heard anyone say “Chicago, Illinois” or Los Angeles, California" in casual conversation, and Dallas, Fort Worth, and Austin do not tend to get the state appended, so I am not sure of the origin of “Houston, Texas” although I have heard it expressed that way. I wonder if there was a time when Houston was small enough to not be recognized by everyone and the state was appended for clarity, then entered the language as simply a habit? My own \*guess \*for such statements would be that the city/state combinations have appeared in songs or movie quotes and have simply entered the language as people grab the terms from memory. I don’t recall anyone ever talking about “Philadelphia, Pennsylvania,” but I have heard folks mention “Philadelphia, PA” (with the P and A spoken as words), and that phrase appears in a couple of different songs. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/91 "2010-07-19T00:07:17Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > This does not address references to “Houston, Texas” or similar declarations. I’ve never actually heard anyone say “Chicago, Illinois” or Los Angeles, California" in casual conversation, and Dallas, Fort Worth, and Austin do not tend to get the state appended, so I am not sure of the origin of “Houston, Texas” although I have heard it expressed that way. Other places in the state, too. Over near where I grew up, it was quite common for people to crow about “Lubbock, Texas” to other Texans. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/92 "2010-07-19T00:44:59Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I live in Burlington, Ontario and have never been vexed by confusion with any of the other Burlingtons. Clearly, you aren’t a sports fan. The [Burlington International Games](http://burlingtoninternationalgames.com/about.html) “invit[es] more than 25 North American cities, towns and communities named Burlington to participate”. Burlington, Vermont has hosted these games in the past. Not to be confused with Burlington, Massachusetts. ---
**Author:** ![jasonh300](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/46a35a/32.png) [@jasonh300](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasonh300)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/93 "2010-07-19T03:57:12Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > Ontario International Airport is in California, not far from Los Angeles. In fact, the city of Los Angeles owns it; they bought if from the city of Ontario some years ago. How did they move it all the way from Canada to Los Angeles? Seems like a lot of trouble just for an airport, considering they already have LAX. Is it still called YYZ? 😉 ETA: i just reread your post and see you ruined my joke by saying “city of Ontario”. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/94 "2010-07-19T23:02:41Z")
> [@BorgHunter](#): > > Yeah, but that’s Texas. Texans, as a general rule, have a compulsive need to inform everyone around them of their Texan-ness, even when they’re _in_ Texas at that particular moment. I’ve never noticed Texans in Texas including the state name when they mention their origins. If anything, they’ll omit it since they figure everybody else is from Texas as well and should know the name of all towns and cities in the state. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/95 "2010-07-19T23:54:38Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > We go ahead and expand that to places outside the United States as well. “Paris, France,” and “London, England,” sound perfectly natural to us It sounds really weird to us. Besides, there’s only one London. The rest are just londons. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/96 "2010-07-19T23:56:19Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > umm, well, YEAH! Are you unfamiliar with Paris, Texas? Moscow, Idaho? Vienna, Wisconsin? Dunno about Helsinikis but there’s a fairly large Athens, Georgia as well as a less impressive Rome and Albany in that state; Ontario has a London, Massachusetts has a Cambridge, and Alabama has a pretty respectable Birmingham. > > but New York is “the City”. > > There ain’t no other. Sure there is. It’s called “York”. It’s not new. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/97 "2010-07-19T23:58:56Z")
I don’t think it can be because Americans include the state as well as the city in mailing addresses - British people do that too. Even London usually requires a county on drop down forms, and the county is Greater London, which includes nothing but London. It’s becoming more common to just write the town and postcode, but it’s not standard form. However, I understand the explanations about the sheer number of similarly-named towns making it a habit for people to add the state even when talking about famous cities. That, and being overly-helpful to foreigners. There probably are some people in the UK who wouldn’t know where Houston is when talking to an American, but that city’s well-known enough that any adult who isn’t aware Houston’s in Texas probably doesn’t care to know either. Still, it is hard to know when to draw the line between helpful and being patronising. BTW, why are people telling the OP that there’s a Paris in France? I would have thought it was pretty clear he was asking if there were others in the US. > [@Bytegeist](#): > > But, I wouldn’t have guessed that you (an Englishman?) would necessarily recognize Fort Lauderdale, unless you just love poring through your atlas. The city is fairly well known here, but doesn’t normally make big national or international news. I think it’s mentioned in quite a few movies and TV shows; it might be the location of a particular famous show, too, but the computer I’m currently on is completely borked and I can’t run a search. ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/98 "2010-07-20T00:18:58Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Nitpick: The people are Afghans, the monetary currency is the Afghani. > > But that’s like the wife’s cousins. They never studied in the US but did look into it at one point and wanted me to tell them about the University of Washington DC. I said there was no such school. They said sure there was and showed me some info. It was the U of Washington in Seattle. There is, however, a [University of the District of Columbia](http://www.udc.edu/), locally referred to as UDC. ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/99 "2010-07-20T00:25:32Z")
Coincidentally, the year we moved to San Antonio, Texas, we sent our female [American Hairless Terrier (AHT)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Hairless_Terrier) to her original breeder in San Antonio, Florida. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975/100 "2010-07-20T01:22:29Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > It sounds really weird to us. How do you identify cities that few people are likely to have heard of? Once that pattern is established, it becomes natural to use it for every city. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-new-york/546975.md?page=6)