# New York nuked. How do I survive? (Warning: grim topic) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 10, 2003, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-nuked-how-do-i-survive-warning-grim-topic/154099 "2003-02-10T14:42:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-nuked-how-do-i-survive-warning-grim-topic/154099/61 "2003-02-12T22:01:05Z")
Well, that’s the thing, **Eve**. We’re trying to decide whether it even _would_ be a world without you, Uke, Zev, etc. The consensus of this thread seems to be that in a plausible scenario, Zev at least would probably survive, if he were at home (I’m not sure exactly where you live, or how close it is to the hypothetical blast site). ---
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-nuked-how-do-i-survive-warning-grim-topic/154099/62 "2003-02-12T22:13:37Z")
Eve wrote: “. . . But would you even want to live in a world without me, Ukelele Ike, Oxymoron, Billdo, Zev . . . ?” ::cough::cough::CHOUGH!!!:: ---
**Author:** ![montana\_cricket](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@montana\_cricket](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/montana_cricket)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-nuked-how-do-i-survive-warning-grim-topic/154099/63 "2003-02-12T22:38:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RickJay \* > \*\* > > A nuclear bomb going off will not destroy civilization. Two went off in Japan and they rebuilt their country. \*\* Japan didn’t rebuild their country, the US rebuilt their county–at least mostly. Who would want to help us? (not that we don’t deserve it, it just seems like most countries aren’t as interested in helping as we are.) ---
**Author:** ![Ankh\_Too](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3ab097/32.png) [@Ankh\_Too](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ankh_Too)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-nuked-how-do-i-survive-warning-grim-topic/154099/64 "2003-02-12T22:53:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Whack-a-Mole \* > \*\*For bonus points do you (or anyone) know what ‘W.O.P.R.’ stands for? I do so I guess I have to bow out but I’ll add another 5 points to the game for a correct answer. > \*\* **W** ar **O** perations **P** lanned **R** esponse. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-nuked-how-do-i-survive-warning-grim-topic/154099/65 "2003-02-12T23:01:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by stuyguy \* > \*\*Eve wrote: > > “. . . But would you even want to live in a world without me, Ukelele Ike, Oxymoron, Billdo, Zev . . . ?” > > ::cough::cough::CHOUGH!!!:: \*\* Wassa madda, youse got a cold, \*\*stuyguy \*\* ? (You have to say it in his primative, native pigdin, or else he won’t understand.) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-nuked-how-do-i-survive-warning-grim-topic/154099/66 "2003-02-12T23:10:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ankh\_Too \* > **W** ar **O** perations **P** lanned **R** esponse. Bzzzt…wrong answer. Close but wrong. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-nuked-how-do-i-survive-warning-grim-topic/154099/67 "2003-02-12T23:19:58Z")
Lets try War Operations Plan and Response. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-nuked-how-do-i-survive-warning-grim-topic/154099/68 "2003-02-13T00:13:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > \*\*Lets try > > War Operations Plan and Response. \*\* Nah…I’m not grading on use of conjunctions or conjugations…just the main words themselves. Hint: Only one word is wrong in both answers so far. If you plan on getting it right you’ll have to think of a new agenda to work it out. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-nuked-how-do-i-survive-warning-grim-topic/154099/69 "2003-02-13T00:40:37Z")
Wimpy Obscure Press Release? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-nuked-how-do-i-survive-warning-grim-topic/154099/70 "2003-02-13T00:44:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by OpalCat \* > \*\*Wimpy Obscure Press Release? \*\* One point for cleverness. Smart asses are always appreciated. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-nuked-how-do-i-survive-warning-grim-topic/154099/71 "2003-02-13T03:08:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eve \* > \*\*. . . But would you even _want_ to live in a world without **me, Ukelele Ike, Oxymoron, Billdo, Zev**. . . ? \*\* Well, I’ve met **Uke and Billdo and Oxymoron**. My answer? No way. 🙂 Of course, we’re ignoring a much more plausible scenario, and one with less dramatic but no less dire consequences. A dirty bomb. Forget Ground Zero, it’s too pat. My fear is that one will be detonated on top of a skyscraper, showering the greater NYC area with radiation. This stuff gives me nightmares. I think it’s supposed to. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-nuked-how-do-i-survive-warning-grim-topic/154099/72 "2003-02-13T04:39:59Z")
Well, if a dirty bomb does go off in NYC, the worst bit for **Eve, Ukelele Ike, Billdo, Oxymoron** et alia will be having to wear those baggy mutant robes and rubber faces, plus having to _daven_ in front of the Doomsday Device (you know, the big metal Brancusi-looking thingie with alpha and omega on its fins) on High Holy Days, plus having to deal with those pesky, damn, dirty apes. I work in downtown DC these days, so I’m right smack in the center of the bullseye. In the event of a nuclear strike, I’m going to be fallout, grey ash floating in the wind like the last line of a haiku. ---
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-nuked-how-do-i-survive-warning-grim-topic/154099/73 "2003-02-13T05:44:08Z")
Will someone add me to the list damn it?!?! When our guts get vaporized why should Eve, Ukelele Ike, Billdo & Oxymoron be the only ones remembered? ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-nuked-how-do-i-survive-warning-grim-topic/154099/74 "2003-02-13T05:46:10Z")
Boy this thread is making me look forward to my first trip to the United State of Paranoia next month. Not that i’m especially looking forward to returning to London, with the rumours of [ricin](http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/4896197.htm) being randomly smeared on door handles and escalator handrails in the near future… ---
**Author:** ![something\_clever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@something\_clever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/something_clever)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-nuked-how-do-i-survive-warning-grim-topic/154099/75 "2003-02-13T05:56:32Z")
i wanna know… if nyc is screwed… wall street and what not. do they house those computers that save all the records and what not somewhere else? kind of like in fight club where they blow up all the credit card companies to erase all records and start everyone back at zero again… are we protected against something similar to that? not that a bomb in nyc wouldnt be terrible, but right now as it stands, if that happened and we werent prepared, everything would be severely fudged across the nation… but if all that info an such was backed up somewhere safe, i think most of the nation, besides being really panicked, would still be alright… we wouldnt have to rebuild all of that… i dunno if im saying this right, i cant say it exactly how im thinking but, maybe you guys understand what im trying to ask / say ? ---
**Author:** ![Ficer67](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c57346/32.png) [@Ficer67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ficer67)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-nuked-how-do-i-survive-warning-grim-topic/154099/76 "2003-02-13T08:42:35Z")
Is there a consolation prize? The computer was called WOPR. It had a backdoor keyed “Joshua” ---
**Author:** ![Mothchunks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@Mothchunks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mothchunks)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-nuked-how-do-i-survive-warning-grim-topic/154099/77 "2003-02-13T13:36:46Z")
in case the other one is still not working. [http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/bomb/sfeature/mapablast.html](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/bomb/sfeature/mapablast.html) ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-nuked-how-do-i-survive-warning-grim-topic/154099/78 "2003-02-13T15:44:38Z")
Go here– [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=162871](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=162871) BLAST IT!!! Everybody in this thread read the link!!! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![OxyMoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9a140/32.png) [@OxyMoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OxyMoron)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-nuked-how-do-i-survive-warning-grim-topic/154099/79 "2003-02-13T15:48:01Z")
I feel so…_loved_ \. A serious question, especially for Zev. I recall speaking very seriously with my father back in the early 80s, I believe after _Testament_ aired. Because of the likelihood of prolonged agony, we agreed in that we would use my Dad’s gun to remove ourselves quickly, rather than endure nuclear winter and/or airborne radiation poisoning, if our then-home city of Seattle wasn’t incinerated immediately. Of course, the likelihood of a huge exchange of ICBMs is much less. But now I live in New York, where a smaller bomb could have similar effects. At this point, I don’t think I’d off myself, but I’m not sure. What are the ethical issues in your branch of Judaism, **Zev**? Would suicide or homicide be permissible, or perhaps even required, to avoid a guarantee of greater suffering? ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-nuked-how-do-i-survive-warning-grim-topic/154099/80 "2003-02-13T16:20:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by OxyMoron \* > \*\* > A serious question, especially for Zev. I recall speaking very seriously with my father back in the early 80s, I believe after _Testament_ aired. Because of the likelihood of prolonged agony, we agreed in that we would use my Dad’s gun to remove ourselves quickly, rather than endure nuclear winter and/or airborne radiation poisoning, if our then-home city of Seattle wasn’t incinerated immediately. > > Of course, the likelihood of a huge exchange of ICBMs is much less. But now I live in New York, where a smaller bomb could have similar effects. At this point, I don’t think I’d off myself, but I’m not sure. > > What are the ethical issues in your branch of Judaism, **Zev**? Would suicide or homicide be permissible, or perhaps even required, to avoid a guarantee of greater suffering? \*\* Generally speaking, within Judaism, suicide is bad. Real bad. To my knowledge (and I’ll be the first to admit that in this area it is somewhat limited) there are no grounds for justifying suicide. Even if one is required to allow oneself to be martyred (rather than, for example, kill an innocent), one is not allowed to take his own life to avoid the situation. Of course, OTOH, there is the story of Masada, the mountaintop fortress in the desert that held out against the Romans. In the end, the defenders chose to kill themselves rather than fall into Roman hands and a life of slavery and suffering. However, the story of Masada is a bit complicated for two reasons: (1) The defenders involved (at least according to Josephus) chose to kill one another rather than actually commit suicide. This would tend to tell us that suicide is worse than murder. (2) There were, to my knowledge, no Torah scholars on Masada. What actions they took may not have been in accordance with normal Jewish law. So, in the end, I don’t know if any proof can be brought from the actions of the defenders at Masada. Likewise, I don’t know if any proof could be brought from the actions of King Saul either, as he was clearly manic toward the end of his life. So, where does that leave us? I don’t know. Later Rabbinical writings do create the impression that suicide (which is also a form of murder) is worse than murder. Logically (to me) this doesn’t really click. In the end, after boring you for five paragraphs, I have to tell you that I don’t know the answer. If I were _forced_ to make a ruling based on my limited knowlege, I’d say “no,” you can’t commit suicide to avoid later suffering. But in all cases, contact a competent Rabbi who would probably be able to answer this question much better than I can. Zev Steinhardt [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-nuked-how-do-i-survive-warning-grim-topic/154099.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-nuked-how-do-i-survive-warning-grim-topic/154099.md?page=5)