# New York Times hires unapologetic racist writer **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 4, 2018, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086 "2018-08-04T10:58:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/421 "2018-08-10T17:19:31Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Quinn Nortons tweets were taken out of context, the guy who got fired from Netflix said the N-word out of context, both were classed as racist, so why are Jeongs racist jokes, which they were, any different? I can’t comment on the guy from Netflix, because it references behavior behind closed doors. As for Quinn Norton, there were apparently claims that her friendship with white supremicist weev was taken out of context, as were 2 instances of her dropping the N-bomb on twitter. She said she was trying to fit in with the hacker culture when she did that. Um, that doesn’t sound like a context problem. In fact, it sounds like a case where the NYT reviewed the context of her behavior, and found it racist. Argument lifted from this article: [Sarah Jeong and the New York Times: the “controversy,” explained - Vox](https://www.vox.com/2018/8/3/17644704/sarah-jeong-new-york-times-tweets-backlash-racism) But hey, if you agree that a screenshot of a tweet with no context provided looks a lot like a smear we’re good! I’m glad nobody did that to Norton, and if they did I wouldn’t put a great weight on their argument. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/422 "2018-08-10T17:23:07Z")
> [@](#): > > **k9bfriender** > A few things. Quinn not only did not apologize, but she was disparaging actual minorities, not the ruling class, she was doing so with an avowed white supremacist. I do see a completely different dynamic at work when you complain about the majority who is benefiting from power structures that are harming you, and complaining about a minority that the power structures that are benefiting you are already harming. Well I don’t, and setting a standard of where one group can grossly generalise another group because they’re ‘Punching up’ Is just excusing racism, she doesn’t get to do it anymore than I do. As for Quinn Norton; > [@](#): > > **[The Independent](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/quinn-norton-new-york-times-fire-writer-twitter-racist-homophobic-neo-nazi-opinion-journalist-a8209606.html)** > Ms Quinn, a queer activist who has engaged and debated with Anonymous trolls in the past, tweeted following the outcry: “When I speak to communities, I used their language to do it. I only used [faggot] in the context of my work with anons.” > > Of the “n\*\*\*er” tweet, from 2009, she said she had retweeted someone else “using offensive language in a sarcastic tweet that was meant to slap back at racists after Obama’s first election”. It was “not my best retweet, even if the intentions, both mine and [his], were in the right place”, she admitted. I agree dynamics are different, but the general discourse has been fire anyone who has made tweets perceived to be racist or discriminatory irrespective of context, and she got fired for it and Jeong didn’t, so context, by their own logic, does not matter, so why does it matter for Jeong? > [@](#): > > Netflix is a different story, as it is a different company, owned by different people, and a charge of hypocrisy is pretty silly when you are making the charge that two different groups of people reacted differently to two different things. I’m not sure I agree with that decision, but the call was on the line with investors and other powerful people on the company who do make these sorts of decisions. They apparently didn’t want the head of the company to be the sort of person who has to repeatedly ask why he can’t say slurs. No it’s not, it just highlights the general discourse that is happening, firing people for saying stupid things, or firing them, when their intentions are good, regardless of the context. That was my aim in highlighting those examples from different companies, and that guy from Netflix was by all intents and purposes a ‘Liberal’ who was ‘On your side’ yet he was still put on the stake. > [@](#): > > **k9bfriender** > Doesn’t sound like you’ve forgiven her, if you are still going on about how her words offended you. And the hypocrisy that you see is only in front of you because you are holding it up in front of your face to hide from reality. Her words do offend me, but I don’t want her fired for it, I want the same standards applied to all people regardless of background, that’s the main crux of my argument. I forgive her because I believe she can change, Jeong herself I’ve said isn’t the main issue, it’s the institution such as the NYT acting like a bunch of hypocrites. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/423 "2018-08-10T17:36:39Z")
Yes, yes, hypocritical NYT considers context in both cases, fires an unapologetic bigot who pals around with white supremacists and hires a minority who apologizes for allegedly anti-white snark in the past. The nerve of the NYT, hiring people based upon an evaluation of their writing! ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/424 "2018-08-10T17:37:51Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Yes, yes, hypocritical NYT considers context in both cases, fires an unapologetic bigot who pals around with white supremacists and hires a minority who apologizes for racist snark in the past. > > The nerve of the NYT, hiring people based upon an evaluation of their writing! That’s crazy! I think they should just pull names out of a hat. That way it’s fair. Just like life. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/425 "2018-08-10T17:41:25Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > And is that precedent minorities who make fun of white people and apologize aren’t treated the same as white people who make fun of minorities and don’t apologize? I’m guessing she didn’t apologize because she didn’t think they were right to take things which were said out of context, plus if she did apologise, it would legitimize what she thinks is an unfair portrayal of her stance on subjects of race and homophobia, remember she was fired hours after she accepted a position at NYT. With Jeong, they found the tweets, didn’t immediately fire her, she apologized and blamed the alt right for attacking her, even though she made racist jokes, so, if context is irrelevant in their approach to dealing with these situations, why wasn’t she fired as well? > [@](#): > > [Quinn Norton](https://twitter.com/quinnnorton?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) > I don’t think @nytopinion made the right call firing me, though I understand that they panicked, and don’t bear them ill-will, at all, really. But I hoped they have learned to only fire people for cause, not social media fishing for out of context tweets, & stand by @sarahjeong. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/426 "2018-08-10T17:44:46Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > I’m guessing she didn’t apologize because she didn’t think they were right to take things which were said out of context, plus if she did apologise, it would legitimize what she thinks is an unfair portrayal of her stance on subjects of race and homophobia, remember she was fired hours after she accepted a position at NYT. With Jeong, they found the tweets, didn’t immediately fire her, she apologized and blamed the alt right for attacking her, even though she made racist jokes, so, if context is irrelevant in their approach to dealing with these situations, why wasn’t she fired as well? So you think using ‘fag’ is OK then right? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/427 "2018-08-10T17:57:18Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Many of your posts here could be considered racist, especially if I took them out of context. That I could very easily take your posts and make you look like a racist, does that make you one? OK then show me the context. > [@](#): > > When did you stop beating your wife? You are in fact defending Sarah Jeong, right? Sarah Jeong is a racist, her comments prove that unless there is actually any “context” out there that proves otherwise. But you don’t defend other racists. So no its not like asking when you stopped beating your wife. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/428 "2018-08-10T17:59:27Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > I’m guessing she didn’t apologize because she didn’t think they were right to take things which were said out of context, plus if she did apologise, it would legitimize what she thinks is an unfair portrayal of her stance on subjects of race and homophobia, remember she was fired hours after she accepted a position at NYT. With Jeong, they found the tweets, didn’t immediately fire her, she apologized and blamed the alt right for attacking her, even though she made racist jokes, so, if context is irrelevant in their approach to dealing with these situations, why wasn’t she fired as well? It looks to me that context IS relevant in their approach, and they didn’t believe Norton’s explanation of the context. Guess she should have made her case better. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/429 "2018-08-10T18:09:14Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > OK then show me the context. > > You are in fact defending Sarah Jeong, right? Sarah Jeong is a racist, her comments prove that unless there is actually any “context” out there that proves otherwise. > > But you don’t defend other racists. > > So no its not like asking when you stopped beating your wife. Taking quotes out of context, why should we believe someone who is racist against Asians. > [@Harvard and Princeton Targeted in U.S. Asian-American Discrimination Probe](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvard-and-princeton-targeted-in-u-s-asian-american-discrimination-probe/611636/17): > > we would see Asians even MORE over-represented than they are now and noone wants that besides the Asians so fuck em. Why do you hate Asians? Context doesn’t matter right? Who is your employer so we can get you fired? ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/430 "2018-08-10T18:12:16Z")
> [@](#): > > **manson1972** > It looks to me that context IS relevant in their approach, and they didn’t believe Norton’s explanation of the context. Guess she should have made her case better. If they’d of kept Norton, what do you think the backlash would of been? > [@](#): > > **Rat Avatar** > So you think using ‘fag’ is OK then right? What like #cancelwhitepeople? No, both are equally reprehensible, what part of that has gone over your head? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/431 "2018-08-10T18:17:36Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Well I don’t, and setting a standard of where one group can grossly generalise another group because they’re ‘Punching up’ Is just excusing racism, she doesn’t get to do it anymore than I do. Of course you don’t, you refuse to. I know people that refuse to see things right in front of their faces all the time. They trip and fall on their faces a lot, but it’s okay, because they always blame someone else. > [@](#): > > As for Quinn Norton; > > I agree dynamics are different, but the general discourse has been fire anyone who has made tweets perceived to be racist or discriminatory irrespective of context, and she got fired for it and Jeong didn’t, so context, by their own logic, does not matter, so why does it matter for Jeong? What the fuck is “general discourse”? Who is in charge of it, and what makes you an authority? You agree that the dynamics are different, but you still think they should be treated the same. That would be inconsistency on your part, not theirs. > [@](#): > > No it’s not, it just highlights the general discourse that is happening, firing people for saying stupid things, or firing them, when their intentions are good, regardless of the context. That was my aim in highlighting those examples from different companies, and that guy from Netflix was by all intents and purposes a ‘Liberal’ who was ‘On your side’ yet he was still put on the stake. Well, when the NYT and Netflix merge, then they may need to get their policies straight. Like I said, I felt the Netflix firing was a bit of an overreaction, but I’m still a hypocrite because I also think that firing Jeong over the tweets would be an overreaction? That doesn’t make any sense. > [@](#): > > Her words do offend me, That’s white fragility. > [@](#): > > but I don’t want her fired for it, I want the same standards applied to all people regardless of background, So, we should pass a law requiring that all businesses treat PR concerns exactly the same? > [@](#): > > that’s the main crux of my argument. I forgive her because I believe she can change, Jeong herself I’ve said isn’t the main issue, it’s the institution such as the NYT acting like a bunch of hypocrites. Your perception is that they are hypocrites, because they didn’t treat a person who was unapologetic about insults towards minorities the same as a person who was apologetic about insults towards the ruling class. You also feel that they are hypocrites because they did not do what a different company did. You seem to also claim that they are hypocrites because they didn’t follow the “general discourse”. None of those claims of hypocrisy hold up to scrutiny, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/432 "2018-08-10T18:18:14Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > If they’d of kept Norton, what do you think the backlash would of been? My guess is quite nasty. Which is why they fired her. > [@](#): > > What like #cancelwhitepeople? No, both are equally reprehensible, what part of that has gone over your head? You honestly think that someone like myself saying #cancelwhitepeople is equally reprehensible to my saying #cancelfaggots?? ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/433 "2018-08-10T18:18:31Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > If they’d of kept Norton, what do you think the backlash would of been? > > What like #cancelwhitepeople? No, both are equally reprehensible, what part of that has gone over your head? One is used for systemic racism, which makes it higher on the spectrum of evil, but you haven’t shown that #cancelwhitepeople was related to genocide, that is just your assumption. Maybe if you weren’t so fragile you would have realized it was a hyperbolic joke related to #CancelColbert. In bad taste and yes not acceptable but not genocidal despite it being so in your wet dreams. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/434 "2018-08-10T18:52:28Z")
If wypipo are so fragile, how’d we manage to effectively conquer most of the world? ---
**Author:** ![Delicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@Delicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delicious)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/435 "2018-08-10T18:57:38Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > If wypipo are so fragile, how’d we manage to effectively conquer most of the world? White privilege, duh. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/436 "2018-08-10T18:57:39Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > If wypipo are so fragile, how’d we manage to effectively conquer most of the world? Guns? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/437 "2018-08-10T18:58:39Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > If wypipo are so fragile, how’d we manage to effectively conquer most of the world? We are talking about their ego here; not their guns, germs or steel. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/438 "2018-08-10T19:05:09Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > If wypipo are so fragile, how’d we manage to effectively conquer most of the world? A lack of morals and the willingness to use people as property? But being from Europe doesn’t make you fragile, “white people” didn’t even exist as a thing until after Bacon’s Rebellion. The land owners intentionally created this rift to prevent another uprising. The fact that you think that ‘white people’ is even related to linage and are willing to use it in this way despite your ignorance is what shows that you are fragile. The systemic racism that arose after Bacon’s Rebellion is what you are fighting to maintain and that is shameful. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/439 "2018-08-10T19:27:24Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > OK then show me the context. > > You are in fact defending Sarah Jeong, right? Sarah Jeong is a racist, her comments prove that unless there is actually any “context” out there that proves otherwise. Damuri: If you want an example of a remark by Jeong taken out of context, it’s in the Vox article. She’s called a gook, and throws some crap back at the accuser. Not particularly vociferous crap either, unlike the 4 alarm stuff posted by Norton. The problem is that a post showing her _not_ being racist isn’t especially impressive. Because that’s the expectation, right? Which is why I wanted you to pull an example of her actually being racist. That’s why the burden of proof is legitimately yours. Accusations of racism require, you know, a real example. At least one. As opposed to cut and paste jobs. I’ve poked around. AFAICT there is exactly one instance of #cancelwhitepeople. Awkwardly it appeared during a twitter discussion of bad SWM behavior on reddit. So getting the fullest context would take some digging. And I don’t want to do that, unless you say that this is the instance of alleged racism you want to focus on. So far you have nothing. But if you want to explore the single example of #cancelwhitepeople as a test case, I suppose we can do that. ---
**Author:** ![Delicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@Delicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delicious)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/440 "2018-08-10T19:30:41Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > One is used for systemic racism, which makes it higher on the spectrum of evil, but you haven’t shown that #cancelwhitepeople was related to genocide, that is just your assumption. > > Maybe if you weren’t so fragile you would have realized it was a hyperbolic joke related to #CancelColbert. In bad taste and yes not acceptable but not genocidal despite it being so in your wet dreams. So something has to be genocidal to be racist? That’s good to know, glad we’re in an almost racism-free world nowadays then. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086.md?page=23)