# New York Times hires unapologetic racist writer **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 4, 2018, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086 "2018-08-04T10:58:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![Delicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@Delicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delicious)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/461 "2018-08-10T20:46:28Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Due to racial fetishism or? Because fighting to maintain racial tension isn’t helping much. > > But if you want to get into a cock measuring fight. > [ul] > [li]Publicly confronted, debated and challenged Richard Girnt Butler dozens of times along with other high profile racists.[/li][li]Actively engaged and counter-recruited white nationalists at every opportunity for the past 25 years.[/li][li]Tried my best to stop contributing to systemic racism.[/li][li]Volunteer time to political campaigns to combat racism.[/li][li]Over decade of continuing monthly donations to the SPLU and ACLU. [/li][li]Actively debated fragile white men in person and online[/li][/ul] > > I will admit having one close friend shot at by the Aryan Nations and having coworkers targeted by a bombing by the Phineas Priesthood is what lead to most of this effort. > > So really not a lot and I could have done more, but not resorting to the ‘I know a black person so i’m not racist’ really doesn’t do a whole lot to help interrupt the cycle and may indicate you may want to improve communication with your loved one. Because of dat bootay! ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/462 "2018-08-10T20:47:29Z")
> [@Delicious](#): > > Because of dat bootay! So you admit racial fetishism is why…classy. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/463 "2018-08-10T20:50:50Z")
> [@](#): > > **k9bfriender** > Argument from ignorance is a poor argument. That you don’t understand something does not mean that it is inexplicable. I’m not ignorant though, that’s your own assumption. Just because I disagree with your approach, doesn’t mean I do not understand. > [@](#): > > Okay. When someone apologizes for making negative commentary about the class that benefits at their expense, then they should be forgiven. > > If someone refuses to apologize for making comments about a class of people who are marginalized by society, then I will wait for their appology before considering forgiving them. > > Consistent enough, or by everyone, you also mean under all circumstances, even if they are different? Sure, white people have done it, look at Papa John and Johnathan Friedland, they’re the same right, both racist? Regardless of context? > [@](#): > > I didn’t realize that companies had to base their HR policies on “standard discourse”. I didn’t say you were in charge, I asked who was in charge, and I asked what made you an authority\*. I never implied HR did such a thing, but there has been a trend as of late of white employees being fired for saying racist comments regardless of the context involved. Pretty weird how that stopped when Jeong made racist jokes, hence the anger. So by implication of your question, I have to be an authority and cite who is in charge to voice my opinion on the matter before I’m able to pass judgement, you do realise I can reverse that question right? > [@](#): > > If they had been white, and they had done the same things, sure. But they didn’t, they did different things in different contexts, so logic would dictate that they not be treated the same. No, the logic is that irrespective of the context, sure they did different things, but they were all white who had made racist comments, and were fired irrespective of the circumstances, where as Jeong kept her job despite being racist. Hence the ire received from members of the public. > [@](#): > > And that is because you are only judging them by the color of their skin, and not the content of their tweets. Great, tell NYT that in respects to Quinn Norton, because they did exactly what you described. > [@](#): > > Yeah, we noticed that you are sure as shit not going to be quiet over an uppity minority getting a position where you may have to read her words from time to time. Yup this isn’t shutting down debate is it. Are you for fucking real? > [@](#): > > Yes it is. No, it isn’t. > [@](#): > > If we put alt right trolling aside, then the anger over this pretty much goes away. Maybe, doesn’t make it any less wrong. > [@](#): > > So, your perception is because you have looked into an alternate universe where things were different, and things happened differently? > > It is you opinion that that would be what happens, but that is it, your opinion. So you’re implying if Jeong was white she’d of kept her job? Even if she apologised? > [@](#): > > Who is this “he” who said things that are not as bad as what Jeong said that was fired? Is this a new firing that I hadn’t heard of? Johnathan Friedland, he was fired for saying the N-word at netflix in a discussion about hurtful language, he used it as an example, was pulled up by HR and used it again in the meeting with them and was booted out. > [@](#): > > Right, the general discourse being what people are talking about on social media. And somehow or other, what people are talking about on social media should be binding policies for companies HR departments. Never implied that, but organisations will take stock of what other reputable media organisations are doing and will follow their example, or are you implying that businesses and organisations cannot be influenced by each other. ---
**Author:** ![Delicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@Delicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delicious)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/464 "2018-08-10T20:51:07Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > So you admit racial fetishism is why…classy. Are you suggesting non-black people may not possess substantial booty? That’s racist ---
**Author:** ![Delicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@Delicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delicious)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/465 "2018-08-10T20:52:39Z")
It’s actually because her dad threatened to kill me with his finest chuckin’ spear if we didn’t tie the knot. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/466 "2018-08-10T20:54:03Z")
> [@Delicious](#): > > Are you suggesting non-black people may not possess substantial booty? > > That’s racist Hey you are the one who responded to a direct question on your motivations. But irrespective of race choosing a partner purely on objectification is still not classy ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/467 "2018-08-10T20:55:07Z")
> [@Delicious](#): > > It’s actually because her dad threatened to kill me with his finest chuckin’ spear if we didn’t tie the knot. One thing you are good at is digging holes!!! ---
**Author:** ![Delicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@Delicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delicious)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/468 "2018-08-10T20:56:41Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > One thing you are good at is digging holes!!! Not really, i get my wife to do that when we’re waiting for the cotton to…ripen? ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/469 "2018-08-10T20:57:27Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Due to racial fetishism or? Because fighting to maintain racial tension isn’t helping much. > > But if you want to get into a cock measuring fight. > [ul] > [li]Publicly confronted, debated and challenged Richard Girnt Butler dozens of times along with other high profile racists.[/li][li]Actively engaged and counter-recruited white nationalists at every opportunity for the past 25 years.[/li][li]Tried my best to stop contributing to systemic racism.[/li][li]Volunteer time to political campaigns to combat racism.[/li][li]Over decade of continuing monthly donations to the SPLU and ACLU. [/li][li]Actively debated fragile white men in person and online[/li][/ul] > > I will admit having one close friend shot at by the Aryan Nations and having coworkers targeted by a bombing by the Phineas Priesthood is what lead to most of this effort. > > So really not a lot and I could have done more, but not resorting to the ‘I know a black person so i’m not racist’ really doesn’t do a whole lot to help interrupt the cycle and may indicate you may want to improve communication with your loved one. Wait a minute, you claim to be anti racist and whatnot, yet **Delicious** literally tells you he married a black woman and the first thing that comes to your mind is that he did it for racial fetishism? Do you not realise you’re being racist by implying the only reason why he would marry a black woman is for racial stereotypes, not because, erm, he loves her? ---
**Author:** ![Quint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/76d3ee/32.png) [@Quint](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quint)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/470 "2018-08-10T20:58:56Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > I do want to point out, a big reason that people want to limit the term ‘_racism_’ to _‘prejudice + power’_ is to de-weaponize it for the simplest case. > > But fragile white men go ballistic with the idea of restricting it to cases of power because they want to have excuses like in this thread to justify their inaction against the systemic racism we have. > > The funny thing is that it would cause a lot less racial tension if we would allow this to happen. But hey…I guess maintaining that illusion of being 100% self made is more important. > > But the ‘shame’ is all self inflicted here. Hey I have been reading this thread with some interest and am wondering if you can expand on this post. Maybe expand is the wrong word- can you dumb it down for me? I am enjoying the debate and back and forth but it seems like you are making an important point here that is going way over my head. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/471 "2018-08-10T21:00:58Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Wait a minute, you claim to be anti racist and whatnot, yet **Delicious** literally tells you he married a black woman and the first thing that comes to your mind is that he did it for racial fetishism? > > Do you not realise you’re being racist by implying the only reason why he would marry a black woman is for racial stereotypes, not because, erm, he loves her? I asked him a question, which is directly related to the OP. Which you would understand if you researched the subject instead of posting as fast as you could with ‘look racism’. Racial fetishism is a problem for Asian women in America and in part seems to be related to the tweets that are the subject of this thread. > **[Race and sexuality | Asian women](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_fetishism#Asian_women)** > > Several studies have shown that East Asian women are ranked as the most desired women in dating. Research has found that Asian women are considered the most desirable because Asian women's physical features are perceived as more feminine, and therefore more attractive than white women's. > An Asian fetish focusing on East Asian, Southeast Asian and to an extent South Asian women has been documented in Australasia, North America, and Scandinavia. > According to a 2008 article from the Washington and... ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/472 "2018-08-10T21:09:15Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Wait a minute, you claim to be anti racist and whatnot, yet **Delicious** literally tells you he married a black woman and the first thing that comes to your mind is that he did it for racial fetishism? > > Do you not realise you’re being racist by implying the only reason why he would marry a black woman is for racial stereotypes, not because, erm, he loves her? When he follows that up with two hateful stereotypes (spears and cotton), it’s certainly reasonable to consider that he has some bigoted inclinations. It’s entirely possible to have racist beliefs and say/do racist things while still having affection and even love for a person or persons of another race. ---
**Author:** ![Delicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@Delicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delicious)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/473 "2018-08-10T21:16:39Z")
I said nothing hateful about his spear, it’s a damn fine weapon. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/474 "2018-08-10T21:17:02Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s entirely possible to have racist beliefs and say/do racist things while still having affection and even love for a person or persons of another race. I’m pretty sure that he’s not actually married to a black woman. I doubt he’s much older than 15, and if he is he should reconsider his life. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/475 "2018-08-10T21:20:53Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > I asked him a question, which is directly related to the OP. Which you would understand if you researched the subject instead of posting as fast as you could with ‘look racism’. > > Racial fetishism is a problem for Asian women in America and in part seems to be related to the tweets that are the subject of this thread. > > [Race and sexuality - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_fetishism#Asian_women) Oh I’m fully aware of racial fetishism, but my ire was directed at you using it as the first go to assumption as to why he married a black woman. If you’re so anti racist and what not, you can’t make gross assumptions that the only reason why Delicious would marry a black woman is based on some racist stereotype. > [@](#): > > **iiandyiiii** > When he follows that up with two hateful stereotypes (spears and cotton), it’s certainly reasonable to consider that he has some bigoted inclinations. It’s entirely possible to have racist beliefs and say/do racist things while still having affection and even love for a person or persons of another race. I’d believe that, but he said it _before_ Delicious had made any mention of spears and cotton. Never denied the latter either, my issue is that **Rat Avatar** immediately jumped to that conclusion as if it was something to tick on a racial sensitivity checklist, rather than considering he married her because he loved her. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/476 "2018-08-10T21:21:51Z")
> [@Quint](#): > > Hey I have been reading this thread with some interest and am wondering if you can expand on this post. Maybe expand is the wrong word- can you dumb it down for me? I am enjoying the debate and back and forth but it seems like you are making an important point here that is going way over my head. It is an important point. You will notice that people keep trying to circle back to definition of racism that is comprised of merely conscious hate. Racism is a lot more complicated than that. Typically a minority will be talking about racism as something that is systemic and/or institutional. Under those definitions racism isn’t just believing you are better than another for some reason, which is better defined as prejudice. If you consider the systemic form of racism it is prejudice plus power. A minority typically doesn’t have the ability to enact laws, restrictions or social norms in our society at large. They may be prejudiced but typically lack the power to act on it at the institutional or systemic level. But as white Americans typically do not experience this institutional and systemic bias they tend to only consider the hate part of it. The problem arises due to this miscommunication and to be honest us white peoples tendency to overreact when the subject is brought up. This typically ends in the conversation stopping and the systemic bias continuing. Because of this pure lack of understanding a white person will feel personally attacked if they hear a phrase like “black people can’t be racist”. Because the only aspect of this that they have personally experienced is typically the hate part of the more general definition. This super sensitivity to just conversations is what is called ‘white fragility’ and it is a very real problem. The shame and the guilt that drives this response in people who simply haven’t had enough exposure to even come close to having an understanding feel attacked when they are not. If a black woman could simply say (white people always want to touch my hair and it bothers me to have my personal space invaded) without this over reaction many of these problems would be easier to solve. Like I said, I am a white man and have these same challenges in noticing these problems. But after establishing trust the largest frustration that has been communicated to me is that even talking about the subject is impossible. One of the reason that it is challenging is due to this difference in the definition of racism. This thread is completely based on white people wanting to define racism under these terms. Having a different definition isn’t necessarily the problem, the problem is that it shuts down the chance for minorities to teach us about what is happening to them. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/477 "2018-08-10T21:27:29Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Oh I’m fully aware of racial fetishism, but my ire was directed at you using it as the first go to assumption as to why he married a black woman. If you’re so anti racist and what not, you can’t make gross assumptions that the only reason why Delicious would marry a black woman is based on some racist stereotype. > > I’d believe that, but he said it _before_ Delicious had made any mention of spears and cotton. Never denied the latter either, my issue is that **Rat Avatar** immediately jumped to that conclusion as if it was something to tick on a racial sensitivity checklist, rather than considering he married her because he loved her. He was actively arguing against a situation where a woman was being subject to racial fetishism and reacted poorly to it. He could have clarified or corrected that question and I would have followed up with why he felt it was acceptable in this case. We all have biases and we always will, and expecting anything else is just an artifact of the ‘fragility’ With his responses it is quite obvious that my hunch was right. Had he married his wife because of less objectifying means he would have communicated that. ---
**Author:** ![Delicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@Delicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delicious)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/478 "2018-08-10T21:28:14Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > I’m pretty sure that he’s not actually married to a black woman. I doubt he’s much older than 15, and if he is he should reconsider his life. You probably just think that because you’re a racist ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/479 "2018-08-10T21:30:26Z")
> [@Delicious](#): > > You probably just think that because you’re a racist You’re less funny than **Drunky Smurf** , but at least you’re trying (embarrassingly hard). ---
**Author:** ![Delicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@Delicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delicious)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/480 "2018-08-10T21:33:57Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > He was actively arguing against a situation where a woman was being subject to racial fetishism and reacted poorly to it. He could have clarified or corrected that question and I would have followed up with why he felt it was acceptable in this case. We all have biases and we always will, and expecting anything else is just an artifact of the ‘fragility’ > > With his responses it is quite obvious that my hunch was right. Had he married his wife because of less objectifying means he would have communicated that. If any answer results in being called a racist, might as well go all out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086.md?page=25)