# New York Times hires unapologetic racist writer **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 4, 2018, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086 "2018-08-04T10:58:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 55
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/1081 "2018-09-14T16:15:32Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Huh? My link shows a ratio of 21 to 1 for young black men. The ratio for black vs whites is 2.7::1 the ratio for 15-19 year old black::15-19 year old whites is 21::1 > [@](#): > > No one gets any license for racism ever at any time. Including Jeong. She said something dumb, in response to some horrible stuff, and apologized for it. She apologized that her statements were taken out of context and not recognized as the counter-trolling she claims it to be. It was a deliberate statement. Not even said in the heat of the moment. She was being deliberately racist because she thought it was witty of something. > [@](#): > > This isn’t what I asked you. Do you have a single example of someone being shut up (do you know what “being shut up” means? You were the one who offered that phrase) by such an accusation? And I’m asking you if you actually don’t think that people are actually being silenced by accusations of racism. I assume you’re asking the question because you don’t think it ever happens. But I just wanted to be sure. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/1082 "2018-09-14T16:17:40Z")
Opened debate thread about this [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=862238](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=862238) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/1083 "2018-09-14T16:18:45Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The ratio for black vs whites is 2.7::1 > > the ratio for 15-19 year old black::15-19 year old whites is 21::1 > > She apologized that her statements were taken out of context and not recognized as the counter-trolling she claims it to be. It was a deliberate statement. Not even said in the heat of the moment. She was being deliberately racist because she thought it was witty of something. > > And I’m asking you if you actually don’t think that people are actually being silenced by accusations of racism. I assume you’re asking the question because you don’t think it ever happens. But I just wanted to be sure. I think it happens very rarely, if ever. So do you have a bunch of examples? Or even one? And let’s see a definition of “shut down” too, just so we’re on the same page. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/1084 "2018-09-14T16:33:25Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Why so coy? What do you think those differences are? AFAICT, a lot more people vote for white women generally than black men. Judging from the senate and the house of representatives. Trump and Obama are men. Clinton is a woman. That’s one glaring difference. > [@](#): > > I agree. Trump is embarrassing but ultimately, SCOTUS nominations are more important. Unfortunately, we need the bread and circus of outrage to get people off their ass it seems Yay, we agree on something! 🙂 > [@](#): > > And again, we are not talking about Michael Moore switching parties. We are talking about swing voters. people who voted for Obama twice and then voted for Trump. And you seem to think that a lot of those people did switch because of racism or whatever against white people. But you are unable to prove that. I say it’s because both Obama and Trump are men, so people voted for the man in each election. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/1085 "2018-09-14T16:44:26Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Why would she #cancelwhitepeople? Because it’s a mediocre show with flawed writing, poor pacing, and an asshole production staff. Honestly, it was pretty fun in like, the second season. Mmmmmmaybe the third. But downhill ever since. (Also, Sarah Jeong? Not a racist.) ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/1086 "2018-09-14T18:32:51Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Yay, we agree on something! 🙂 AFAICT, we agree on almost everything, it frequently comes down to how ardently we agree and why we agree. > [@](#): > > And you seem to think that a lot of those people did switch because of racism or whatever against white people. But you are unable to prove that. I say it’s because both Obama and Trump are men, so people voted for the man in each election. Its not against white people so much as it is race centered identity politics that seems to put minority/gender rights at the center of the Democratic agenda while people are trying to figure out how to pay their mortgage and send their kids to college in world where they seem to be less and less use for them. I doubt her genitals hurt her any worse than Obama’s skin color. And for fuck’ sake, we’re not just talking about some run of the mill male politician, we’re talking about Trump. Hillary lost to TRUMP, that’s not just genitalia. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/1087 "2018-09-14T18:40:25Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > AFAICT, we agree on almost everything, it frequently comes down to how ardently we agree and why we agree Perhaps. > [@](#): > > Its not against white people so much as it is race centered identity politics that seems to put minority/gender rights at the center of the Democratic agenda while people are trying to figure out how to pay their mortgage and send their kids to college in world where they seem to be less and less use for them Sure, and if they thought for one second that Trump would be better than Clinton in the aspect of helping them pay their mortgage or send their kids to college, then they are morons who vote against their own interests. > [@](#): > > I doubt her genitals hurt her any worse than Obama’s skin color. And for fuck’ sake, we’re not just talking about some run of the mill male politician, we’re talking about Trump. Hillary lost to TRUMP, that’s not just genitalia. And I would say it was more important to people than “Twitter users are being mean to white people” Genitalia is a hellavu drug. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/1088 "2018-09-15T02:00:20Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > No, I’m just laughing at laughing at your impotent white rage. …so what I’ve learnt today: 1/ You don’t read an entire post before you respond. You just jump right in there. 2/ When you find out you’ve made a mistake: you don’t correct the mistake before you post: you just let it stand. > [@](#): > > Yes they fucking are. Your turn. No they fucking aren’t. > [@](#): > > In America, I think its because they have already won most of the arguments that can be won with facts and analysis alone (or at least the currently available facts) and now want to convince people to do what they want in areas where there isn’t clear and convincing evidence and so they try to turn their opinions into facts. Its interesting you haven’t cited any examples of this happening. I think its all in your head. Or your facebook feed. > [@](#): > > So they lie or distort the truth. Same with this. > [@](#): > > Ummm. OK. Then forget what I said about impotent white rage. I now realize that your rage is not just self-masturbatory white liberal guilt exercise in patting yourself on the back. Why does the colour of my skin change the substance of what I had to say? > [@](#): > > Yes it is and I don’t know why I assumed you were white. Perhaps it was because so many of the people who condone anti-white racism here in America are white. I don’t see it as much from people who have actually experienced racism. Do you think Sarah Jeong has actually experienced racism? > [@](#): > > I admit I don’t know that much about New Zealand. But I’ve done business in Australia (Macquarie) and New Zealand (TCNZ). The people are nice but there was a level of casual racism that was pretty shocking. I knew that your prime minister gave birth in office because I am interested in maternity leave as a universal benefit in the USA. I’ve watched a few movies from new Zealand that may or may not be accurate depictions of New Zealand society. But if they are, then New Zealand has some race problems of its own and can’t really wag its finger at the USA. My interaction with New Zealanders have been almost exclusively with pakeha, like I said, they are seemingly nice folks but racist as fuck. This was almost 20 years ago and things might be different now. To be quite clear here: New Zealand is racist as fuck. But these boards are racist as fuck as well. And I’ve experienced worse racism here on these boards (outside of the pit) than anything that I’ve experienced in society. > [@](#): > > I didn’t say share power, I said LOSE power. You don’t understand. The relationship between Maori and the Crown is a partnership. Established by law. Its our founding document. The Treaty of Waitangi. We share power because that is what both parties to the agreement signed up too. “Loosing power” would require the equivalent of a constitutional amendment. Its theoretically possible. But it isn’t something that could happen overnight. > [@](#): > > Shared power can be taken back. And in America they could ban guns tomorrow. But that isn’t gonna happen. > [@](#): > > If you have shared power, then you are just an agent for the dominant group and the power is shared only as long as the dominant group wants to share that power. We aren’t “agents.” We are partners. We’ve been fighting colonialism all our lifetime. We’ve dealt with it before. We will deal with it again if we have too. > [@](#): > > I’m talking about when power is lost. If that power is lost: then we take to the streets. Hone Heke. Bastion Point. The Springbok Tour. We’ve done it before. And if that doesn’t work, then we go to war. > [@](#): > > How do you think the pakehas would react in your country if Maori (and other brown minorities) started to approach 50% of the population? :: shrugs :: One would hope they would react pretty much the way most of them are reacting now. [In 2010 38% of people](https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/54876/compulsory-te-reo-in-schools-supported-by-38-percent-survey) wanted Te Reo to be compulsory in schools. In a more recent survey that number had jumped to 80% [(and that 80% was pakeha respondents).](http://educationreview.co.nz/the-big-debate-should-te-reo-be-compulsory-in-our-schools/) But if that weren’t to happen: then we’d fight back. And we would fight back hard, as we always have done. > [@](#): > > When the pakehas aren’t mostly rich and the Maori aren’t largely poor? And they realize that New Zealand’s prosperity didn’t depend on white people controlling everything. Did you get your education about New Zealand from the back of a cereal packet? > [@](#): > > When I see it on this board or in debates about race, its frequently to shut people up. “What you see” is only representative of “what you see.” > [@](#): > > Its like how accusations of anti-Semitism fly whenever we have a debate about Israel’s treatment of Palestinians. Sure sometimes people are anti-semetic, but other times they just want people to shut up about how Israel treats the Palestinians. We haven’t had a decent Israel/Palestinian stoush since FinnAgain stopped posting regularly. And that was in 2014. And that rarely happened. So it isn’t like that at all. > [@](#): > > So you have never seen liberals being accused of racism by the thought police branch of liberalism? What the fuck is the “thought police branch of liberalism?” Is that something else I have to go onto my “facebook feed” in order to see examples of? Its all in your head. > [@](#): > > You do it with more than mere accusations of racism. We have racists here too and they must be opposed Yep. > [@](#): > > but the accusations of racism are being used against moderates and center left folks. Racism is racism. And I’ll call it if I see it. And if I see anybody being accuse of racism when they shouldn’t be (be they “moderates, center left folk or people from the right”) I’ll call that out as well. But I’m going to keep on doing what I’m doing. Because I’m not responsible for Trump. I am fighting for social justice: and I happen to live in a country where many others are fighting for social justice and we are winning more battles at the moment than we are loosing. And if you want to fight for social justice: then stop telling people like me to shut the fuck up. Stop blaming me because people decided to vote for Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/1089 "2018-09-15T16:24:01Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Opened debate thread about this > > [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=862238](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=862238) A thread in which you didn’t give your own opinion on the subject, or even return to after posting it. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/1090 "2018-09-15T21:51:19Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > But I’m going to keep on doing what I’m doing. Because I’m not responsible for Trump. I am fighting for social justice: and I happen to live in a country where many others are fighting for social justice and we are winning more battles at the moment than we are loosing. > > And if you want to fight for social justice: then stop telling people like me to shut the fuck up. Stop blaming me because people decided to vote for Trump. Let me pose a hypothetical for you, **Banquet Bear**. Imagine an alternate universe that is virtually identical to the one we now live in, with the only difference being that in this universe it is just as socially taboo to disparage white people as it is to disparage someone of any other race. If we lived in that world, would you in any way be impeded in your mission to advocate for social justice? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/1091 "2018-09-15T23:41:45Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Let me pose a hypothetical for you, **Banquet Bear**. Imagine an alternate universe that is virtually identical to the one we now live in, with the only difference being that in this universe it is just as socially taboo to disparage white people as it is to disparage someone of any other race. If we lived in that world, would you in any way be impeded in your mission to advocate for social justice? …I don’t give a fuck what is “socially taboo” or not. Why on earth do you think that matters? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/1092 "2018-09-16T03:55:28Z")
gotcha-ya! ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/1093 "2018-09-17T22:25:23Z")
In the latest episode of his podcast, Vox’s Ezra Klein interviewed David French of the National Review. French made a number of interesting points related to the Jeong case and the larger phenomenon it represents, with which (before one dismisses them due to their origin on the right) Klein largely agreed: (1) When white people either make “wypipo” type comments themselves, or come to the defense of someone like Jeong, they are virtue signaling. Not just in some general “I’m a progressive” way, but specifically this signaling functions as a form of “#NotAllWhitePeople”. They are saying “please take note: I am not one of those bad white supremacists. I’m not even one of those oblivious people who ‘doesn’t get it’. I’m fully aware of all these issues, so please don’t assume I’m one of ‘them’ just because I’m obviously of predominately European ancestry.” Which is interesting (I wanted to say “ironic”, but inevitably there are scolds who pop up when that word is used outside of some incredibly narrow usage they never quite define) since I’ve been derided in these conversations for essentially taking my own version of a #NotAllStraightWhiteMen position. Reihan Salam’s op-ed in the Atlantic is referenced in this part of the conversation; he takes it further to argue that this is a way of setting what he calls “Upper Whites” against “Lower Whites”: [Sarah Jeong, Harvard, and Strategic White-Bashing - The Atlantic](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/08/the-utility-of-white-bashing/566846/) (2) There is an increasing tendency on both the right and left to circle the wagons and get very angry when anyone criticizes someone on “their own side”. French notes for example that he wrote a column critical of the jury verdict in the Philando Castile shooting, and he got furious pushback from conservatives who accused him of giving the other side aid and comfort. He also says that although people outside of conservative circles may not realize it, the antipathy aimed at “Never Trumpers” like him has only increased over the past couple years, rather than dissipating as one might expect. He doesn’t give examples of this same tendency playing out on the left, but I would call this thread a textbook example. People like Damjuri, Blalron, and I are despised as Fifth Columnists (or accused of being disingenuous right wing concern trolls). It also explains the ferocity of hatred so often aimed by “Bernheads” at those of us who supported Hillary Clinton in 2016. (3) There has been much “ink” devoted to “bubbles” or “silos” in American politics. The basic thesis is that people are only hearing opinions which match theirs. But that leaves out an important facet to this phenomenon: people actually do see daily examples of what people on the other side of the spectrum are saying, but only the most extreme or ridiculous statements, tailor-made (or rather, curated) to provide an opportunity to ridicule or demonize the other side. This is very comfortable for the partisans on each side, so when they are interrupted by a thoughtful moderate/centrist/alternative position (such as might come from members of the so-called “Intellectual Dark Web”) it is a profound irritant to the body politic. “Don’t make us think—just let us hate, and laugh, and high-five those on our ‘team’” is the operating philosophy. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …I don’t give a fuck what is “socially taboo” or not. Why on earth do you think that matters? That’s an…interesting, and very unusual, take. Not only sociologists, anthropologists, and social psychologists generally understand that social norms and taboos are in fact very important and powerful. Why on Earth do you NOT think they matter? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/1094 "2018-09-18T03:02:51Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > That’s an…interesting, and very unusual, take. …this is an uninteresting, and very boring take. > [@](#): > > Not only sociologists, anthropologists, and social psychologists generally understand that social norms and taboos are in fact very important and powerful. Why the fuck would I care what imaginary sociologists, imaginary anthropologists and imaginary social psychologists from an imaginary alternate universe have deemed to be socially taboo? > [@](#): > > Why on Earth do you NOT think they matter? 😕 My personal moral code isn’t defined by something as incredibly subjective as “social taboo.” It has long since been socially taboo in many circles to speak out in support for woman who claimed to have been sexually harassed, assaulted or raped. But I don’t define my behaviour or how I think or act by those taboos. It used to be socially taboo to have visible bra straps. Why on earth do you think that should matter to me? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/1095 "2018-09-18T13:50:10Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > My personal moral code isn’t defined by something as incredibly subjective as “social taboo.” It has long since been socially taboo in many circles to speak out in support for woman who claimed to have been sexually harassed, assaulted or raped. But I don’t define my behaviour or how I think or act by those taboos. It used to be socially taboo to have visible bra straps. Why on earth do you think that should matter to me? This is a great answer! \*thumbs up! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086.md?page=54)