# New York Times hires unapologetic racist writer **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 4, 2018, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086 "2018-08-04T10:58:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/121 "2018-08-06T04:39:56Z")
I’m a white guy who finds her diatribes amusing, almost adorable. Am I being condescending? If so, too bad, bitch. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/122 "2018-08-06T04:57:31Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > Am I off here? It just feels so . . . unadmirable. Unnecessary. Unproductive. And intentionally hurtful. And, ultimately, it’s the same dehumanizing language that paves the way for a lot of awful behavior that the powerful and/or scared enact upon others. You are being played by 4chaners if you saw that tweet in isolation to the original conversation. Remember, twitter only extended its character limit last fall. Before that, you were limited to 140 characters, which made expression somewhat haiku like: it was _severely_ limiting, had the flavor of text messaging. She conversed with a lot of hateful bigots. It was part of her job actually, as a social media reporter. I call bullshit on Sullivan’s article. You want to attack Jeong? Fine. Report the whole conversation then, rather than snipping out preposterously misleading weaponized 4chan images. To take these attacks seriously is to support cowardice. Oh, and “Unapologetically racist” in the title is false and should have been retracted by the OP, after **TriPolar** post (#19). For shame, for shame, too many lack shame. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/123 "2018-08-06T13:00:16Z")
I strongly oppose the NYT ever hiring **Banquet Bear** , based on his comments above. But Jeong? Nah. She mirrored back language that was being tossed at her. She thought it made the point of how flawed that language was. She was blind to the possibility of how inappropriate her own tactic was, especially if quoted out of context. When she became aware of this, she acknowledged the problem and apologized. What else can she do? Sorry, I can’t get on the outrage bus for this. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/124 "2018-08-06T13:21:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But Jeong? Nah. She mirrored back language that was being tossed at her. She thought it made the point of how flawed that language was. She was blind to the possibility of how inappropriate her own tactic was, especially if quoted out of context. So far, I haven’t seen any examples of these abusive tweets to which she was supposedly responding. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/125 "2018-08-06T15:11:41Z")
“So far, I haven’t bothered researching my outrage and have yet to retract even the portion of my OP title that is demonstrably, unambiguously false.” ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/126 "2018-08-06T15:22:58Z")
We are talking about he NYT that facilitated the Iraq invasion lies, right? Yeah? Ok. As long as she peddles war propaganda, which probably won’t be a problem for her, I think she will fit right in. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/127 "2018-08-06T15:26:41Z")
> [@andros](#): > > When I, as a white person, say in goddamn frustration, “seriously, fuck white people,” I am not being racist. I am just goddamn frustrated. I bitch about men, and about white people, because there are a _lot_ of men and white people who _make me complicit in their shit_. > > Someone like Sarah Jeong says to me, or even near me, “seriously, fuck white people,” I’m right there. Yeah, we suck. I’m sorry. > > But I also know she’s not talking about _every melanin-deprived person in the world._ She’s not talking about her white friends or her white partner or her white family members or white allies who hear her frustration and respond, “I know, right? We suck, I’m sorry. We’re trying to make things better.” > > _Of course_ #notallmen, _of course_ #notallstraights, _of course_ #notallwhitepeople. That should go without saying–and it does in Jeong’s mind and in her circles and in the civilized world. Calling her a racist, even choosing to frame her words as racist, is bullying nonsense, the faux trolling outrage of the alt-right. It’s stupid, and anyone who does it is stupid. > . What kind of “white” racists have you known that hate all “black” people. Every single one that I have met will say “you have your black people, and you have your …” ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/128 "2018-08-06T15:44:11Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > What kind of “white” racists have you known that hate all “black” people. Every single one that I have met will say “you have your black people, and you have your …” Yeah. They seem to love quoting a twenty year old Chris Rock comedy routine. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/129 "2018-08-06T16:46:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I strongly oppose the NYT ever hiring **Banquet Bear** , based on his comments above. > > But Jeong? Nah. She mirrored back language that was being tossed at her. She thought it made the point of how flawed that language was. She was blind to the possibility of how inappropriate her own tactic was, especially if quoted out of context. > > When she became aware of this, she acknowledged the problem and apologized. What else can she do? > > Sorry, I can’t get on the outrage bus for this. I’m a white man and I approve this message. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/130 "2018-08-06T16:47:10Z")
I’m a white male, not an “SJW”. Her apology and explanation is enough for me. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/131 "2018-08-06T18:12:00Z")
> [@JVDaly](#): > > “Fuck white women lol” - Sarah Jeong. > [@Riemann](#): > > …These words are not ever okay (when not meant satirically), and it’s certainly an incredibly bad idea to use this kind of “white people” rhetoric on Twitter, where context can easily be misunderstood or misrepresented. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Are you sure? > [@JVDaly](#): > > “Fuck white women lol” - Sarah Jeong. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Said in this very thread. Not satire. Was that OK? It’s interesting that you’ve attempted this weak parody, suggesting that I think use of these words _even in reported speech in debating their use_ is unacceptable. Your point, presumably, is that the true meaning of words cannot be discerned in isolation, and that anyone who does not pay careful attention to _context_ and _intent_ is obviously a fool. And yet, on intent, the debate of the last several decades has led us all to understand that: > [@](#): > > Intent vs. Impact: Why Your Intentions Don’t Really Matter > [Intent vs. Impact: Why Your Intentions Don’t Really Matter - Everyday Feminism](https://everydayfeminism.com/2013/07/intentions-dont-really-matter/) And, on context, it’s now a widely accepted social norm that non-black people must use a placeholder for the word “nigger” _even in the situation that you attempt to parody above_, for example as reported speech in an academic discussion of historic literature. To preempt the straw man that you will inevitably trot out again, I’m not claiming that prejudiced statements against historically privileged groups are _equivalent_ to similar statements against marginalized groups in their effect or significance. Sarah Jeong is not oppressing anyone. But when there’s a general principle that the _effect_ of our speech and actions is paramount, whatever the intent & context, you can’t credibly claim that this principle should only apply to white people. Her public Twitter rhetoric should be discussed on the basis of its divisive and antagonistic _impact_. Her original intent and context are not all that matters here. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/132 "2018-08-06T18:32:52Z")
I was a bit perplexed by a “new” story today implying that Jeong’s comparison of Trump to Hitler is the _ultimate_ faux pas that will get her fired. Then I realized that I was looking at the “Washington Times” rather than the Washington Post. Whatever the “fuck white women lol” controversy, a Trump=Hitler tweet seems like something all civilized people can reunite behind. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/133 "2018-08-06T18:37:49Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Funny thing happened to me about this. Didn’t pay any attention, saw some stuff here and elsewhere, and somehow I assumed that she was black. Dunno why, but was surprised when I saw her picture. Then I was wondering why I was surprised. Haven’t figured it out yet, most likely won’t. > > This happen to anybody else? I figured from the topic of this thread that she wasn’t white. I assumed from her last name that she was Asian, which I just confirmed by googling [a picture](https://www.nytco.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/jbareham_171019_2072_0099.jpg) of her. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/134 "2018-08-06T18:53:58Z")
A commentary by David French at the National Review. > **[Yes, Anti-White Racism Exists | National Review](https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/08/sarah-jeong-twitter-controversy-anti-white-racism-exists/)** > > The denigration of human beings works its own harm. > [@](#): > > …The Times is standing by its hire. Good. It’s time to end termination-by-Twitter and debate bad ideas head-on…But it’s one thing to argue that Jeong should be given a chance to prove herself at the Times, and another entirely to justify the content of the tweets themselves. Yet that’s what part of left-wing Twitter did. The argument isn’t just that the tweets were satire. Rather, numerous liberals took on the very notion that anti-white racism exists, or matters at all… > > But this argument confuses the gravity of an offense with the existence of the offense. A powerless person’s hate may not harm the powerful, but it is still hate. A powerless person’s hate may even be grounded in specific experiences, but it is still hate. The essence of bigotry is to look at the color of a person’s skin and, on that basis alone, make malignant judgments about his character or worth. > > Moreover, it is simply false to excuse anti-white racism on the grounds that people of color lack power… this should [not] be taken as an argument that power doesn’t matter. Of course it does. Power matters. And so does purpose. That’s why no one should compare Jeong’s comments to the racism you see on Stormfront or to the racism we saw on display in Charlottesville last year. Racism married to violence or violent intent is categorically different from the anti-white racism you see in certain quarters of the elite identity-politics Left… > > The threat of anti-white racism (except in rare cases) isn’t violence. It’s not systematic oppression. There’s no realistic scenario where “the tables are turned” and black Americans visit on white Americans a reverse version of the worst aspects of American history. The problem with anti-white racism is that it runs directly counter to efforts to unify in spite of that history. It runs counter to efforts to elevate American culture. > > …to indulge at all the notion that injustice, even systematic injustice, can excuse or legitimize hatred against a class or group of Americans is to open Pandora’s Box. I’ve seen it argued across the breadth of the Web that anti-white sentiment is a legitimate and understandable response to the actions of white people and “white” power structures. But think about this argument. Veterans of our Middle Eastern wars have seen jihadist horrors on a scale that most Americans can’t comprehend. Is it a legitimate response for a veteran to go on a Twitter screed about “canceling” Arabs or calling them “groveling goblins”? Should a white victim of a black criminal draw conclusions about black people more generally? Even if he can point to disproportionate levels of violent crime? > > …A healthy society urges people to reject unhealthy temptations to generalize, and instead urges that we treat our fellow citizens with a degree of grace and to judge them based on their individual actions. Any categorical hatred or disgust stands directly against this virtue. So, yes, anti-white racism is real, and Americans can and should reject it while still keeping in mind matters of gravity and proportion. > > Are we really so far gone that we can’t condemn taking “joy” in being “cruel” to another person on the basis of their race? It’s time to understand a fundamental truth: The denigration of human beings — yes, including white human beings — works its own harm. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/135 "2018-08-06T20:26:42Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > So far, I haven’t seen any examples of these abusive tweets to which she was supposedly responding. Did you miss post 20? and post 34? and post 35? and…well I stopped looking there, but in general have you tried pulling your head out of your ass? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/136 "2018-08-06T21:01:44Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Did you miss post 20? and post 34? and post 35? and…well I stopped looking there, but in general have you tried pulling your head out of your ass? There’s no question there were abusive tweets directed at her. But - not that I’m expressing any particular opinion about the location of Blalron’s head relative to his ass - it’s pretty clear at this point that this is a red herring. There were many, many tweets from Jeong over several years adopting the same style of “white people” rhetoric, i.e. it’s a persistent rhetorical style she consciously and deliberately adopted. And I don’t think her apology was disingenuous about this. She described her style as satirical counter-trolling, but she didn’t claim that her tweets were attributable only to occasional responsive moments of anger and frustration. That’s something that some of her defenders erroneously inferred, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/137 "2018-08-06T21:24:13Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > There’s no question there were abusive tweets directed at her. But - not that I’m expressing any particular opinion about the location of Blalron’s head relative to his ass - it’s pretty clear at this point that this is a red herring. There were many, many tweets from Jeong over several years adopting the same style of “white people” rhetoric, i.e. it’s a persistent rhetorical style she consciously and deliberately adopted. And I don’t think her apology was disingenuous about this. She described her style as satirical counter-trolling, but she didn’t claim that her tweets were attributable only to occasional responsive moments of anger and frustration. That’s something that some of her defenders erroneously inferred, I think. Fine. Show me 3 tweets of hers that you don’t like _in context_. Because showing 30 tweets of hers back to back without context paints a highly misleading picture and is done in bad faith. The OP makes claims regarding Jeong. It is _his_ burden of proof to prove his case and to do that he has to show tweets in context. Three will do. That this isn’t easy shows the disingenousness of Jeong’s critics. Your claim, your burden of proof. We’ve already falsified the “Unapologetic” aspect. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/138 "2018-08-06T21:25:53Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > I’m a white male, not an “SJW”. Her apology and explanation is enough for me. This said, I’m forgiving of many old tweets. People change, and her apology was sufficient for me. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/139 "2018-08-06T21:44:58Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > It’s interesting that you’ve attempted this weak parody, suggesting that I think use of these words _even in reported speech in debating their use_ is unacceptable. …nope. Not parody. > [@](#): > > Your point, presumably, is that the true meaning of words cannot be discerned in isolation, and that anyone who does not pay careful attention to _context_ and _intent_ is obviously a fool. Nope. Not my point. Zero-tolerance. Either those words mean something or they don’t. I gave you two examples of other people using the very same words as Jeong in this very thread that it appears you don’t have any problems with. You chose to address one example. You pretend the other example didn’t exist. andros wasn’t speaking ironically. andros wasn’t quoting somebody else. andros stands behind what they said. Do you believe in zero-tolerance? That those words should never be uttered? I don’t think you really do. Because if you did then instead of wasting your time replying to me you would be replying to andros instead. You’ve done exactly what I’ve said. You accept the alt-right narrative. > [@](#): > > And yet, on intent, the debate of the last several decades has led us all to understand that: Has it really? > [@](#): > > And, on context, it’s now a widely accepted social norm that non-black people must use a placeholder for the word “nigger” _even in the situation that you attempt to parody above_, for example as reported speech in an academic discussion of historic literature. So have you just broken the widely accepted social norm here? > [@](#): > > To preempt the straw man that you will inevitably trot out again, I’m not claiming that prejudiced statements against historically privileged groups are _equivalent_ to similar statements against marginalized groups in their effect or significance. Sarah Jeong is not oppressing anyone. Preempting a strawman with a strawman. Well done. > [@](#): > > But when there’s a general principle that the _effect_ of our speech and actions is paramount, whatever the intent & context, you can’t credibly claim that this principle should only apply to white people. Her public Twitter rhetoric should be discussed on the basis of its divisive and antagonistic _impact_. Her original intent and context are not all that matters here. And another strawman. A twofer! ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086/140 "2018-08-06T22:39:29Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > You pretend the other example didn’t exist. I’m not sure why on earth you think this is a “gotcha”. Quite obviously I’ve said that I think rhetoric that treats “white people” as a monolithic enemy is divisive and wrong, and my opinion of andros saying “fuck white people” or similar is the same as Jeong or anyone else saying it. The David French article that I linked above states my own views more eloquently than I could, so I don’t have a lot more to say here, except to echo Bricker’s opinion that Jeong appears to be a highly intelligent journalist who deserves her place at the Times, whereas you are a sloppy idiot more concerned with virtue-signaling than clear thought about progressive values, and I wouldn’t employ you to write a menu. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-york-times-hires-unapologetic-racist-writer/819086.md?page=8)