I’m not sure I can entirely buy in to this. I agree it is probably true to some extent but I do not think it can be used to pan the whole thing off. An implication here is people already have their minds made up, there is no changing them, so why worry about it? I think that is a wrong stance to take and a recipe for losing an election. Surely the candidates still have room to sway voters to their side else why bother with all the campaign mess?
Also I would think Pew Research knows the business of polling and would control for skewing the results by talking to (say) too many old Jewish Floridians. But I do not know enough about the art and science of polling to say for sure. Just a guess this is something they are aware of and take into account.
shrug Your evidence proves no such thing. It certainly doesn’t prove the main point, which is that this cartoon is somehow going to drive voters who might otherwise have voted for Obama away by reinforcing their perceptions somehow.
Which has nothing to do with this one way or the other. Kerry didn’t ignore allegations…certainly there was quite a bit of back and forth about it. Nor do I think Kerry lost simply because of the Swiftboat allegations…I’m unsure of how much a factor it really was in the end. Obama’s campaign hasn’t ignored the Muslim issue either…in fact they have been fairly active early on in maintaining that Obama is a Christian. I’m unsure of what more you think they need to do that isn’t being done at this point…or why you think that doing more would help.
I’m also unsure why you think that this means Obama et al should do more (or even what they have done) about THIS issue. Seems both silly and counter productive to me for Obama (or his faithful) to show such outrage over a cartoon that was obviously meant as satire.
Offends me? What, that the Obama faithful are stupid and over reactive? Doesn’t offend me at all…that’s Obama’s lookout. I feel sorry for him that his own folks seem to want to put holes in his boat, but there isn’t anything I can do about that. My guess is that he will win in spite of the ‘help’ he gets from his own side…but they sure aren’t making things easy by all this industrial strength outrage and reaction.
Note I said “your” notions which have been (to quote you): “Some minority of Americans (who will probably not ever even consider voting for Obama and who might not even vote for McCain but instead vote some wacked out 3rd party candidate) believe something like this. The thing is…they most likely believed something like this long before this cover ever came out. If it merely re-enforces their belief, well…what of it? They were never going to vote for Obama anyway.”
The above poll shows there is a notable contingent of Democrats swayed by the idea Obama is a Muslim. Your contention seems to have been anyone who thinks Obama is a Muslim is someone who would never vote for him anyway.
As to the main point neither of us know yet what effect it might have. Guess we will have to wait for a poll in 2 months and see if the numbers switch.
Not so much of what “more” can be done than to not relax and let things slide because it is assumed something is beneath comment (and yes, Kerry was slow to respond to Swiftboat deeming it beneath comment and that almost certainly hurt him once he realized he had to address it).
If you think I am hurting Obama fine. I do not think so. More to the point though this is GD where we debate stuff. If you can find a Whack-a-Mole blog out there where I screech about injustices to Obama and how I am hurting his campaign I’d like to see it.
Also, FYI, I am not an Obama disciple. I have stated my displeasure with some choices he has made here on GD. I do not think he walks on water or anything close. More than an Obama supporter I am a spitting mad and angry Bush hater who positively despises the Bush and his administration and (to a lesser extent) congresscritters who abetted his shenanigans. I liked McCain a lot in 2000. I think he is McSame Bush 2.0 this time around and for good reason. As such I strongly support Obama over McCain and will remain so unless Obama starts killing puppies or something.
That was my thought, too. Yes, it’s over the top, silly, and even a little offensive. But it’s par for the course in American political satire over the years, and I think the Obama campaign ought to just grin and bear it. No whining.
If I thought that, I wouldn’t have written approvingly of his reaction to these rumors.
True. Okay, let me revise a little bit: the people who think he’s a Muslim, and won’t vote for him as a result, were never going to vote for him because he’s black. There is some time to reach the ones who are confused but don’t think it’s a big deal. If he was giving up 12 percent of the Democratic vote, this thing would already be over.
There are elderly Jews in places other than Florida and people who think like those West Virginians outside of West Virginia (and Appalachia). Those views may be more prevalent in some parts of the country than others, but they’re not tied to any geography.
Of course. But how random is a random poll? Do they just literally call at random knowing nothing of who they are getting (which presumably could by chance over poll a particular group)? Or do they split it into groups based on census data so they get X% Jews, Y% Christians, Z% Whites and so on such that those percentages match the overall population? (I really have no idea)
Not sure if I am clear what I mean on that but meh…hopefully you can sort it out.
BTW, my apologies Whack-a-Mole…I seem to be in a mood lately.
I think at this late date anyone swayed by the notion that Obama is a Muslim (whether he is or isn’t shouldn’t matter regardless, as it would be his politics that would and should be important) is, IMHO, unlikely to see the light and vote for the man. Showing me stats that seemingly show that there are a certain percentage of Dems who say they are opposed to voting for him because they think he is a Muslim only proves that there are a certain percentage of people who think that…it doesn’t show that they would change their minds if they suddenly realize that, indeed, Obama is a Christian.
Freely conceded. To my mind it seems incredible that anyone who is currently not voting for Obama because they think he’s a Muslim is going to be swayed from that stance…but stranger things have happened.
I think Obama is playing this and everything else in this election beautifully. My respect for Obama the politician could quite possibly not be higher. YMMV.
No, I don’t. I think that some ARE hurting him out there, but it was a silly point and I again apologize.
FWIW, I don’t like McCain much myself, though I think he is much less Bush like than some make him out to be.
