# New York's First Gay High School. Necessary? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 28, 2003, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-yorks-first-gay-high-school-necessary/191510 "2003-07-28T20:24:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-yorks-first-gay-high-school-necessary/191510/121 "2003-07-30T13:10:40Z")
Stephe said, “Do you think having NO exposure to the kind of cruelty kids are capable of is going to be any kind of benefit to them in the ‘real world?’” Uh…I think they’ve had more than their share of exposure to the cruelty our world has to offer. That’s why the school was created. You seem to be missing the point. This isn’t a concentration camp or a spa. It’s a place where you can study without getting the living shit kicked out of you, or being told they’re going to burn in hell for eternity because they don’t want to date the opposite sex. What is so difficult to understand here? Do you think kids that aren’t being emotionally or physically harmed are going to want to uproot their lives by going to this school? It’s not a club. It’s a safe zone. Kids that don’t need it won’t go there. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-yorks-first-gay-high-school-necessary/191510/122 "2003-07-30T13:23:01Z")
Willass said, "I had a relativley benign time at school, although I think everyone gets picked on a little at one time or another, so I couldn’t really say that I know what its like to be bullied and as DeskMonkey said once you leave school thats pretty much it, you are unlikley to encounter bullying again " Gays don’t have the luxury of moving into a world that doesn’t bully. Read the gaybashing thread [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=135183&highlight=bashing](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=135183&highlight=bashing) and see how it really is. Maybe the kids at this school will have a chance to build some self-esteem and will be better equipped to handle the real world that THEY have to deal with. Believe me, it’s not the same world the rest of us live in. Someday maybe…but not now. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-yorks-first-gay-high-school-necessary/191510/123 "2003-07-30T13:37:14Z")
Kputt said, "It might be curable, it might not be. I never gave a gay person a hard time. " Telling your “best” friend that she’s mistaken about her sexuality IS giving her a hard time. Stop it. It stinks. ---
**Author:** ![kputt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f475e1/32.png) [@kputt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kputt)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-yorks-first-gay-high-school-necessary/191510/124 "2003-07-30T13:38:36Z")
I never told my friend that. ---
**Author:** ![DeskMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DeskMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeskMonkey)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-yorks-first-gay-high-school-necessary/191510/125 "2003-07-30T13:40:39Z")
**Kalhoun** , you’re totally right. I guess I was thinking of future alternative schools, where other kids who felt harrassed could go. Since I experienced harrassment as the “freaky girl” in HS, I was thinking more along the lines of my own experience. I agree with your point that it could give kids higher self-esteem. Perhaps not getting used to it in school will give them better tools to stand up for themselves in the future. Who knows, but I think it’s important to offer this safe zone to those who want it. But I still think geting a swirlie in the office would lead to trouble for the swirler. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-yorks-first-gay-high-school-necessary/191510/126 "2003-07-30T14:10:30Z")
Kputt said, “I have a friend who says she is gay, but I don’t believe her. She has been hurt by men in her life, so I think that’s why she can’t love them.” You never told your friend what you truly think of her? My mistake. Your posting that sort of thing here, amongst the gays of the SDMB, IS giving gay people a hard time. Twerp. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-yorks-first-gay-high-school-necessary/191510/127 "2003-07-30T14:12:05Z")
Yes, an office swirly would definitely be trouble at the office, Deskmonkey 🙂 Although I did have a cow-orker tape the wheels on my chair once! ---
**Author:** ![kputt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f475e1/32.png) [@kputt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kputt)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-yorks-first-gay-high-school-necessary/191510/128 "2003-07-30T14:43:14Z")
hey twerp. I said I was wrong. (even though I’m not the one that you have to worry about.). ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-yorks-first-gay-high-school-necessary/191510/129 "2003-07-30T15:57:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kputt \* > \*\* > Anyway, this school is a bad idea and it’s segregation. > \*\* You know, “segregation” just means “seperating”. It’s not inherently a bad thing. Gifted students are “segregated” into gifted programs all the time, as are learning disabled students. We segregate the ill into medical facilities. We segregate criminals into prisons. The _bad_ kind of segregation is segregation that is arbitrary and forced, such as the old days of racially segregated schools. Were all gay students in NYC required by law to attend sub-par “gay schools” instead of the nice “straight schools” it would indeed be a bad idea. However, I still wouldn’t accept “segregation is bad” as a criticism of the program from the likes of you. Considering that you think homosexuals are ill, it is disingenous of you to play the “segregation” card. As if you give a damn about gay rights or whether or not they’re being violated. > [@](#): > > \*\* > These people don’t want to be singled out and they just wanted to be treated just like everyone else. However, having all gay school singles them out and they will be treated differently from everyone else. > \*\* “These people”? Who do you mean? The students who are so desperate to attend Milk that they’re willing to go through a lengthy interview and application process and sit on a waiting list for a while just to get in? Sounds like going to Milk is exactly what these kids want. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Also, you would think these kids would have a little bit more sense in that they should have known better that kids make fun of other kids who are different. They should have never told anyone about their, what I call, illness. (You can call it whatever you want). \*\* What a brilliant solution. Hey kids, if you are “different” in any way, keep it a deep, dark secret! Lie about it if you must! And if the truth happens to leak out, well, I suppose they could always just kill themselves. ---
**Author:** ![kputt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f475e1/32.png) [@kputt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kputt)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-yorks-first-gay-high-school-necessary/191510/130 "2003-07-30T16:16:20Z")
Well, people don’t even know their sexual orientation until they are like 17 or 18, so how can they know if they are gay before then. I’m sure I read that somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![cole\_burner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@cole\_burner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cole_burner)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-yorks-first-gay-high-school-necessary/191510/131 "2003-07-30T16:19:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kung fu lola \* > Show me someone who thinks that beating up on fat kids is justifiable. Show me a principal who tells “Four-eyes” that no one would call him that if he just got contacts. Show me a short kid who is told they CHOSE to be that way, and not being able to pull their gym shorts off of the tallest shelf is a natural consequence. You know nothing. You know less than nothing, and your dangerous because you think you know something. When I was in high school I was a fat kid, and the gym teacher I had actually called me “Fatty.” “Get over it, Fatty!” when we were doing the thing where you jump up and over a pommel horse and I couldn’t jump. And when my mom and me complained to the principal I was told that this wouldn’t happen if I was eating right and execrising. Buy a clue lady. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-yorks-first-gay-high-school-necessary/191510/132 "2003-07-30T17:13:34Z")
Never mind the fact that last night I watched a show called “Boy Meets Boy,” during which (while flipping channels) I saw promos for a show called “Queer Eye For The Straight Guy.” Tell me again about the “hateful” atmosphere in this country that requires gay students to need their own high school…? ---
**Author:** ![TigoleBitties](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cab0a1/32.png) [@TigoleBitties](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TigoleBitties)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-yorks-first-gay-high-school-necessary/191510/133 "2003-07-30T17:14:21Z")
Maybe they need one…maybe they don’t but I will tell you one thing. They are gonna have a hell of a time figuring out who gets to be Homecoming Queen. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-yorks-first-gay-high-school-necessary/191510/134 "2003-07-30T17:17:21Z")
Stephe, again…read the gaybashing thread. Things are changing, but there’s still a loooooooong way to go. ---
**Author:** ![DeskMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DeskMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeskMonkey)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-yorks-first-gay-high-school-necessary/191510/135 "2003-07-30T17:24:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stephe96 \* > \*\*Tell me again about the “hateful” atmosphere in this country that requires gay students to need their own high school…? \*\* So because there are a few TV shows centered around homosexuality, it’s all peachy keen and everyone in this country fully accepts it and just can’t wait to run out and hug a gay person? So what effect did Hogan’s Heros have on your planet? Are lovable, bumbling Nazis all the rage? ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-yorks-first-gay-high-school-necessary/191510/136 "2003-07-30T17:35:33Z")
If you’re waiting for “everyone in this country” to “fully accept” homosexuality then this debate is pretty much over. It will never happen. But so what? Just because “everyone in this country” doesn’t “fully accept” homosexuality does NOT mean that gays are being persecuted in our schools. For example, I might think that chronic gamblers or smokers are not leading particularly healthy lifestyles…does this mean I “hate” anyone who buys a scratch ticket or smokes a pack a day? Of course not. Please understand. Not accepting someone’s lifestyle is NOT hate. (For the record, I’m speaking theoretically here. I have no problem with gay marriage or gays adopting children or anything else along these lines.) ---
**Author:** ![DeskMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DeskMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeskMonkey)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-yorks-first-gay-high-school-necessary/191510/137 "2003-07-30T17:47:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stephe96 \* > \*\*If you’re waiting for “everyone in this country” to “fully accept” homosexuality then this debate is pretty much over. It will never happen. But so what? Just because “everyone in this country” doesn’t “fully accept” homosexuality does NOT mean that gays are being persecuted in our schools. For example, I might think that chronic gamblers or smokers are not leading particularly healthy lifestyles…does this mean I “hate” anyone who buys a scratch ticket or smokes a pack a day? Of course not. > > Please understand. Not accepting someone’s lifestyle is NOT hate. (For the record, I’m speaking theoretically here. I have no problem with gay marriage or gays adopting children or anything else along these lines.) \*\* OK, I’ll change it. So because there are a few TV shows centered around homosexuality, it’s all peachy keen and no one in this country is beating the crap out of anyone because they’re gay. Hmmm, nope, still doesn’t work. Please read the thread **Kalhoun** linked in a post above. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-yorks-first-gay-high-school-necessary/191510/138 "2003-07-30T17:51:57Z")
> [@](#): > > Just because “everyone in this country” doesn’t “fully accept” homosexuality does NOT mean that gays are being persecuted in our schools. From the [Hetrick-Martin Institute website](http://www.hmi.org/Community/LGBTQYouthStatistics/default.aspx): > [@](#): > > 28% of gay and lesbian high school students in a national study were seen to have dropped out of school because of harassment resulting from their sexual orientation. (Remafedi, G., Pediatrics, 326-330. 1987) > > Suicide: > A 1989 study by the US Department of Health and Human Services showed gay and lesbian youth are two to three times more likely to attempt suicide than heterosexual young people. 30% of the completed youth suicides are committed by lesbian and gay youth annually and suicide is their leading cause of death. > > Violence: > 45% of gay males and 20% of lesbians report having experienced verbal harassment and/or physical violence as a result of their sexual orientation during high school. (National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, “National Anti-Gay/Lesbian Victimization Report”, 1984) > > Homelessness: > 26% of gay and lesbian youth are forced to leave home because of conflicts with their families over their sexual identities. (Remafedi. G., Pediatrics, 79, 326-330,1987) > > Student Attitudes: > 97% of students in public high schools report regularly hearing homophobic remarks from their peers. (Making Schools Safe for Gay and Lesbian Youth: Report of Mass. Governor’s Commission on Gay and Lesbian Youth, 1993) > > Staff Attitudes: > 53% of students report hearing homophobic comments made by school staff. (Making Schools Safe for Gay and Lesbian Youth: Report of Mass. Governor’s Commission on Gay and Lesbian Youth, 1993) > > Depression: > In a study of depression and gay youth, researchers found depression strikes homosexual youth four to five times more severely than their non-gay peers. (Hammelman, TL, 1990) Nope, no persecution in your schools. Nosiree. > [@](#): > > Not accepting someone’s lifestyle is NOT hate. Using the word “lifestyle” to reference sexual orientation is stupid. ---
**Author:** ![kputt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f475e1/32.png) [@kputt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kputt)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-yorks-first-gay-high-school-necessary/191510/139 "2003-07-30T17:56:40Z")
I’m sorry people. Yes, I have religious beliefs on this subject, but I guess I came out sounding stronger than I should have. Gay people are just everyday people just like you and I with the same rights and deserve to be treated just as you would like to be treated. I guess I’m more sick and tired of hearing about it than anything. I really don’t care if a person is gay, but I really don’t want to know about it. I wasn’t trying to bash gays at all. I did some research on it, and I had the scientific stuff about it wrong. Religious beliefs, well, I can’t admit I’m wrong there. Those are my personal beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![kputt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f475e1/32.png) [@kputt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kputt)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-yorks-first-gay-high-school-necessary/191510/140 "2003-07-30T18:02:37Z")
I do accept it (what else can I do?), but I have a few problems with it. However, I wouldn’t treat gays any differently from straight people. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-yorks-first-gay-high-school-necessary/191510.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-yorks-first-gay-high-school-necessary/191510.md?page=8)