# New Zealand is choosing a new flag **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 17, 2015, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413 "2015-07-17T13:43:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/21 "2015-07-18T02:32:17Z")
A Kiwi kicking a rugby ball onto a set of stumps. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/22 "2015-07-18T02:35:55Z")
I’ll chime in on some of these. I definitely think they should drop the Royal Union Flag, no matter what else they do. [Interesting colours](https://www.govt.nz/browse/engaging-with-government/the-nz-flag-your-chance-to-decide/gallery/design/24808) [More subtle colours, but maybe the central stripe needs a white border…?](https://www.govt.nz/browse/engaging-with-government/the-nz-flag-your-chance-to-decide/gallery/design/3699) [This one has potential, but is a little busy.](https://www.govt.nz/browse/engaging-with-government/the-nz-flag-your-chance-to-decide/gallery/design/28245) [Nope. Looks like a football club logo.](https://www.govt.nz/browse/engaging-with-government/the-nz-flag-your-chance-to-decide/gallery/design/16177) [Intriguing. I’d like to see a version with the Southern Cross.](https://www.govt.nz/browse/engaging-with-government/the-nz-flag-your-chance-to-decide/gallery/design/28456) [I like this version. Maybe separate the stripes from the top and bottom, like the Israeli flag?](https://www.govt.nz/browse/engaging-with-government/the-nz-flag-your-chance-to-decide/gallery/design/11389) [Um…no.](https://www.govt.nz/browse/engaging-with-government/the-nz-flag-your-chance-to-decide/gallery/design/3391) [Beautiful.](https://www.govt.nz/browse/engaging-with-government/the-nz-flag-your-chance-to-decide/gallery/design/2019) ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/23 "2015-07-18T02:52:29Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > Is New Zealand actually going to change its flag, or are they just sending out feelers as to what a new flag should look like if they do want one? A committee is going to pick the top four designs. Then people will vote on which one of those is the best. Then, after that, there will be a vote between the current flag and the winner of the first referendum. ---
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/24 "2015-07-18T02:57:38Z")
Oddly enough this change is our Prime Minister’s hobby horse. There was no fervent public discussion of the NZ flag before the Flag Consideration Panel was formed - only 3 months ago. Not that Kiwis don’t have their views on the current flag but it isn’t a hot issue. Twenty years ago I’d have voted for change. Today…meh. Flags are far less relevant in a world where people feel more allegiance to a sports team or their city or a group they fit into. Nationality and patriotism are waning concepts. When I were a lad we learned the flags of nations. I’m not sure that happens much now. Flags are nice but…meh. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/25 "2015-07-18T03:36:31Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Wait, is that a flock of _&^%$_ flying\* kiwis??? hey, I thought they were flying turtles! > [@JRDelirious](#): > > OTOH kiwis firing frickin’ lasers out of their eyes _ **are** _ awesome. They need to ask the College of Arms to certify that as a legit heraldic charge. Concur! ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/26 "2015-07-18T14:32:05Z")
Something incorporating the silver fern would be nice (heraldically, silver and white are the same color). Some of those proposals really do have potential. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/27 "2015-07-18T14:45:35Z")
A leaf with feet? One of the designs looked good to me until I read the description and it referred to the color black representing the country’s “sporting identity.” That turned me right off. A country’s national symbol should not be explicitly tied to sports. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/28 "2015-07-19T01:01:36Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > A leaf with feet? > > One of the designs looked good to me until I read the description and it referred to the color black representing the country’s “sporting identity.” That turned me right off. A country’s national symbol should not be explicitly tied to sports. The leaf with feet is (IMO) a clever way to combine 2 popular New Zealand symbols into one: The silver fern and the kiwi. The shape is abstracted but recognizable as the kiwi’s usual “pose” (look at a bunch of the shitty designs to find flags where they just plopped a bird silhouette onto it). I think the guy who I linked to twice (versions 20 and 39, I think?) really makes it work. If you search the submission site for his name (David Muñoz), you’ll see all five billion;) versions that are slight variations on the theme. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/29 "2015-07-19T02:49:39Z")
I think that what a lot of New Zealanders fail to grasp about any new flag is that for most people outside this country a black flag is the banner of anarchy, and a silver fern looks a lot like the white feather of cowardice. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/30 "2015-07-19T03:24:19Z")
The feather with feet just looks to jokey to me. It looks like something that will soon be considered a regrettable fad. In some sense, a lasting national symbol has to be somewhat neutral, not exactly bland, but general enough to absorb very broad meaning over time. As for black, I don’t know whether a majority of people associate black with anarchy. I certainly don’t. The only thing I associate specifically with anarchy is the A-scrawled-on-a-circle symbol. And I have no idea what the “White feather of cowardice” is. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/31 "2015-07-19T03:31:06Z")
Does nobody associate red-and-black with fascism anymore? **Acsenray** : The white feather of cowardice is a reference to the novel _[The Four Feathers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Four_Feathers)_. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/32 "2015-07-19T03:33:51Z")
I have never associated red and black in general with fascism. A red field with black logos highlighted with white looks fascistic to me. But not the plain black field with the Southern Cross in red. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/33 "2015-07-19T04:41:26Z")
I think I like Logan Wu’s entry. For one, it’s got the pyramids that New Zealand is known the world over for. And those pyramids have party favors sticking out of them, which lets you know how very festive New Zealand is. Once I figured out that that flock of birds was not, in fact, a school of fish, the whole thing made a whole lot more sense. Why have a flag that makes people think the country is underwater? ---
**Author:** ![movingfinger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@movingfinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/movingfinger)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/34 "2015-07-19T06:50:25Z")
The black flag with the silver fern is a symbol of very effeminate pirates. Seriously, anything that separates Australia from New Zealand is a step forward. My late wife lived in both countries and was astounded to learn they didn’t share the same flag. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/35 "2015-07-19T07:15:00Z")
Huh. I quite like Otis Frizzel’s swirly flag. I seem to be the only one who does, though. I think Kyle Lockwood’s looks too much like a clothing brand. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/36 "2015-07-19T07:19:14Z")
D’oh! Stupid site error causing double post. ---
**Author:** ![Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ac8455/32.png) [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Your_Great_Darsh_Face)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/37 "2015-07-19T08:18:41Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Does nobody associate red-and-black with fascism anymore? > > **Acsenray** : The white feather of cowardice is a reference to the novel _[The Four Feathers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Four_Feathers)_. But probably even more widely associated with the custom during the Great War of handing out white feathers to men of apparent age and fitness to enlist who were not in uniform. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/38 "2015-07-19T09:23:46Z")
> [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](#): > > Australia and New Zealand have flags that are way, way too similar. It’s about time one of them changed, just so the rest of the world can tell them apart. Yes, that’s a real problem on the battlefield, when NZ and Aus are fighting each other, and all electronic communications have been disabled by Nuclear Bomb / EMF pulse. As seen by the confusion over flags in the USA which lead to the creation of the “confederate battle flag” so much in the news recently. Apart from that (rhetorical question)… who cares if the rest of the world can tell them apart? Who cares if Australians and Kiwis can tell them apart? (rhetorical answer) It’s a national characteristic of both NZ and Aus to be always looking to see what “other countries” think of us – under the mistaken belief that they think of us at all. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/39 "2015-07-19T09:43:08Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > Yes, that’s a real problem on the battlefield, when NZ and Aus are fighting each other, and all electronic communications have been disabled by Nuclear Bomb / EMF pulse. > > As seen by the confusion over flags in the USA which lead to the creation of the “confederate battle flag” so much in the news recently. > > Apart from that (rhetorical question)… who cares if the rest of the world can tell them apart? Who cares if Australians and Kiwis can tell them apart? > > (rhetorical answer) It’s a national characteristic of both NZ and Aus to be always looking to see what “other countries” think of us – under the mistaken belief that they think of us at all. 🙂 I’d say the same for Canada, except for the fact that we have a really cool flag, ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/40 "2015-07-19T17:57:01Z")
> [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](#): > > But probably even more widely associated with the custom during the Great War of handing out white feathers to men of apparent age and fitness to enlist who were not in uniform. Which was shown on an episode of _Downton Abbey_ a few years ago. HMG even created a new badge to help men avoid the dreaded feather: [Silver War Badge - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_War_Badge) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413.md?page=3)