# New Zealand is choosing a new flag **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 17, 2015, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413 "2015-07-17T13:43:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/41 "2015-07-19T18:23:55Z")
> [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](#): > > But probably even more widely associated with the custom during the Great War of handing out white feathers to men of apparent age and fitness to enlist who were not in uniform. Oh, so it was folks being assholes. Anyway, I doubt that’s a very relevant symbol in today’s world. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/42 "2015-07-19T20:40:03Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > \*\*\* Red, Blue, Green, Black, Yellow, White\*\* I think this is a wee too restrictive. I would allow—at the very least—the “Crayola eight” and a few more, so: - white - black - red - green - dark blue - light blue - orange - yellow - purple - brown - grey I go back and forth on pink. Those are all basic, recognizable, distinguishable colors. I wouldn’t go beyond these 11 (or 12). ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/43 "2015-07-19T20:47:29Z")
I think the five-pointed star (the heraldic mullet) is way overused. If New Zealand keeps the Southern Cross, it would be nice if they chose a different star shape. The fern looks like it could be a solid symbol, provided it is rendered simply. I like the white fern on black field. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/44 "2015-07-19T21:18:38Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I think this is a wee too restrictive. I would allow—at the very least—the “Crayola eight” and a few more, so: > > - white > - black > - red > - green > - dark blue > - light blue > - orange > - yellow > - purple > - brown > - grey > I go back and forth on pink. Those are all basic, recognizable, distinguishable colors. I wouldn’t go beyond these 11 (or 12). Well, keep in mind that they include “light and dark” of each color. They also said that orange, purple, grey and brown can compliment the other colors nicely, but to use them judiciously. I didn’t include it in here for brevity, since it was already pretty long. Probably should’ve. Ah well. But yeah, I agree with your overall point. Pink should be there if grey and light blue are; it’s a light red at its most basic. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/45 "2015-07-19T22:07:02Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > **THE BAD** > > [1867-69 Flag of New Zealand](https://www.govt.nz/browse/engaging-with-government/the-nz-flag-your-chance-to-decide/gallery/design/12420) – … Yeah, no. It’s the existing flag, made worse! Yes, keeping the current flag and replacing the Southern Cross with “NZ” is the worst idea ever. > [@](#): > > **SHOWS SOME PROMISE, BUT MAJOR FLAWS** > > [SOUTHERN CROSS AND FERN 1](https://www.govt.nz/browse/engaging-with-government/the-nz-flag-your-chance-to-decide/gallery/design/13113) – I like the abstracted, angular fern and diagonal line. But it looks just a bit too much like a sports team or Olympic national team’s design (perhaps Team Canada or a hockey team?). It’s also on the fly side, so it’ll get torn up quickly. I don’t like the “three-star” concept at all. It’s extremely dull. Some combination of the Southern Cross and the fern has promise, however. > [@](#): > > **SOLID DESIGNS** I don’t like the particular fern-and-cross designs you chose here, but as I said, I think the concept is solid. I also don’t like the ones that use the five-pointed star/mullet as the main element when they don’t form the Southern Cross constellation. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/46 "2015-07-19T22:09:25Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > [Beautiful.](https://www.govt.nz/browse/engaging-with-government/the-nz-flag-your-chance-to-decide/gallery/design/2019) I agree. As I said above, the simplified white fern on a black field is a solid design. You could add the Southern Cross in the upper hoist end, I think. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/47 "2015-07-19T22:46:21Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I think this is a wee too restrictive. I would allow—at the very least—the “Crayola eight” and a few more, so: > > - white > - black > - red > - green > - dark blue > - light blue > - orange > - yellow > - purple > - brown > - grey What about the unwritten rule that the flag must have at least one of the six colors on the Olympic flag - red, blue, green, yellow, black, and white? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/48 "2015-07-19T22:50:59Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > What about the unwritten rule that the flag must have at least one of the six colors on the Olympic flag - red, blue, green, yellow, black, and white? Eh … who cares? Not me. If there even is such a rule. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2015, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/49 "2015-07-20T03:55:34Z")
Okay, I understand the 3 stars to indicate the 3 islands. I like the koru symbol. I can understand the Southern Cross. I certainly would not recommend all three. And it’s certainly time to lose the Union Jack. I like the ones that start off with a solid colour with a contrasting color horizontal band. Maybe put the horizontal band below the center and in the upper part put a koru and 3 stars in nicely contrasting colors? I wish I could find a place to download all 52 episodes of Sheldon Coopers “Fun with Flags” series. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2015, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/50 "2015-07-20T04:59:21Z")
> [@Ken001](#): > > Oddly enough this change is our Prime Minister’s hobby horse. There was no fervent public discussion of the NZ flag before the Flag Consideration Panel was formed - only 3 months ago. > > Not that Kiwis don’t have their views on the current flag but it isn’t a hot issue. > > Twenty years ago I’d have voted for change. Today…meh. Flags are far less relevant in a world where people feel more allegiance to a sports team or their city or a group they fit into. Nationality and patriotism are waning concepts. > > When I were a lad we learned the flags of nations. I’m not sure that happens much now. Flags are nice but…meh. I dunno - the issue of changing the flag has been around for a long long time - it were being discussed 30 years ago when I was a kid at school. And predictably, anything that John is for, whinging winnie has to be against… I want to see a new flag, but would avoid the kiwi - I like something that incorporates the southern cross and some sort of Koru or silver fern personally… Just to note - for naysayers, it seems that the [silver fern](http://media.newzealand.com/en/story-ideas/new-zealand-icon-silver-fern/) has more significance that a sports team icon ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2015, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/51 "2015-07-20T05:11:29Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I also don’t like the ones that use the five-pointed star/mullet as the main element when they don’t form the Southern Cross constellation. LMAO! The mullet-star is the best thing I’ve heard/read today! I agree with you on that, especially since different stars would give another symbolism opportunity (“the 6 point star represents the 6 blahblahblah”, like that). I like the Greater Octogram star: [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e0/8-Point-Star\_black.svg/1024px-8-Point-Star\_black.svg.png](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e0/8-Point-Star_black.svg/1024px-8-Point-Star_black.svg.png) Looks nice, is a distinctive shape that’s still easy to draw, and you could relate it to the old nautical compass roses on maps when the South Pacific was explored. [http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/33/9f/6f/339f6f4c479684e0e81a4429e36b3c93.jpg](http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/33/9f/6f/339f6f4c479684e0e81a4429e36b3c93.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2015, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/52 "2015-07-20T17:42:49Z")
I like the silver fern idea, but just a black field with a white fern makes it look like a pirate flag. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2015, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/53 "2015-07-20T18:02:42Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I like the silver fern idea, but just a black field with a white fern makes it look like a pirate flag. A pirate flag with a leaf on it? Are they affiliated with Greenpeace? ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2015, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/54 "2015-07-20T18:31:11Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > A pirate flag with a leaf on it? Are they affiliated with Greenpeace? A pirate flag with a leaf sounds more like NORML. ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/55 "2015-07-21T11:02:48Z")
On the one hand, I think it’s definitely time for a change. Lived in Australia for a year, been in New Zealand for four months now, and I still can’t tell which ugly flag is which without careful scrutiny. And New Zealand has tons of symbols to dig into and potentially combine. On the other hand, I look at the official logo of the [NZ Air Force](http://www.airforce.mil.nz/) and, well, I can’t help but question the judgment of New Zealanders en masse when it comes to symbols. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/56 "2015-07-21T12:32:50Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > On the other hand, I look at the official logo of the [NZ Air Force](http://www.airforce.mil.nz/) and, well, I can’t help but question the judgment of New Zealanders en masse when it comes to symbols. Design-wise it’s a pretty good symbol … but … a flightless bird for an air force? Is it supposed to be a joke? ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/57 "2015-07-21T16:22:27Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Design-wise it’s a pretty good symbol … but … a flightless bird for an air force? Is it supposed to be a joke? Kiwis… fern leaves… Somebody really needs to sit down with the New Zealanders and explain to them that all this cutesy crap doesn’t help in getting other countries to take them seriously. It’s like your country is run by 10-year-old girls. There’s a reason sports teams are named after things like tigers, bears, or hurricanes. And not things like kittens, flowers, or teddy bears 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2015, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/58 "2015-07-22T00:08:16Z")
I believe that New Zealanders started being called Kiwis during World War 1, because of the widely known [Kiwi Boot Polish](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwi_%28shoe_polish%29#Development) (which isn’t even a NZ product). Like a lot of WWI slang, it stuck and now we wear it proudly. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2015, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/59 "2015-07-22T00:31:20Z")
I’m somewhat amused to learn that WWI slang has such staying power. So I could go around New Zealand talking like this? _Bally Jerry, pranged his kite right in the how’s your father. Hairy blighter, dicky-birdied, feathered back on his Sammy, took a waspy, flipped over on his Betty Harper’s and caught his can in the Bertie._ ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2015, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/60 "2015-07-22T03:40:11Z")
Couldn’t quite follow your banter there, old boy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413.md?page=4)