# New Zealand is choosing a new flag **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 17, 2015, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413 "2015-07-17T13:43:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/121 "2016-03-26T04:35:56Z")
> [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](#): > > New Zealanders actually said, 'We prefer to stick with the flag as it is." Versus that one particular, rather ineptly-chosen design. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/122 "2016-03-26T06:36:35Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > I don’t think changing the flag was a bad idea at all, its heart was in the right place. I just think the final choices were designed like logos instead of representing cultural identity and history. I think it’s a terrible and deeply offensive idea. I’m glad it didn’t happen and I sincerely hope it never happens again. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/123 "2016-03-26T11:41:41Z")
Distinguishing New Zealand from the British empire and Australia is deeply offensive? ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/124 "2016-03-26T14:26:16Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I think it’s a terrible and deeply offensive idea. I’m glad it didn’t happen and I sincerely hope it never happens again. Yeah, a former British colony changing its Union Jack-based flag for some new design could never turn out well. 😉 Maybe you should start a campaign to get us to change ours back? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/125 "2016-03-26T14:52:01Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Yeah, a former British colony changing its Union Jack-based flag for some new design could never turn out well. 😉 > > Maybe you should start a campaign to get us to change ours back? Seems we never really lost it entirely. [Wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Jack#Canada) > [@](#): > > At the close of the Great Canadian Flag Debate in 1964, which resulted in the adoption of the Maple Leaf Flag as Canada’s national flag the following year, a law was passed by the Canadian parliament naming the Union Flag as the Royal Union Flag and designating it as the symbol of Canada’s membership of the Commonwealth and its allegiance to the Crown. The move was a concession given to conservatives, who preferred to keep the old flag, with its Union Flag in the canton. A federal directive says the Royal Union Flag is to be flown alongside the Maple Leaf Flag at federal government buildings, federally-operated airports and military bases, and at the masthead of Her Majesty’s Canadian ships within Canadian waters[65] on three days of the year: Commonwealth Day, the Canadian monarch’s official birthday, and the anniversary of the enactment of the Statute of Westminster 1931.[65] The flag is to be raised only where there is more than one flag pole, to ensure the flag of Canada is not removed. The directive is sometimes followed, sometimes not.[66] ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/126 "2016-03-26T15:19:43Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > Well, that was a colossal waste of time and money. I dont think so. The final result was way closer than earlier polls suggested. And theres many people that want a change, and also many that rejected change just to spite Johnny. I wanted change…and Im glad weve had the debate…maybe in another 10 years or so… ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/127 "2016-03-26T15:44:31Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Seems we never really lost it entirely. > > [Wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Jack#Canada) Cool. The Red Ensign is all well and good in its proper historical place. It is not, of course, a symbol of modern Canada, nor was it a “terrible and deeply offensive idea” to replace it with the Maple Leaf. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/128 "2016-03-26T16:00:32Z")
It’s not the Ensign mentioned in that article. It’s the Union Flag itself that is used as a symbol of the Commonwealth. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/129 "2016-03-26T16:15:09Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > It’s not the Ensign mentioned in that article. It’s the Union Flag itself that is used as a symbol of the Commonwealth. Oops, didn’t notice that. The Union Jack is nice and all, but it isn’t Canadian in any respect whatsoever. Perfectly fine to fly it occasionally to mark a historical connection to the UK. Also useful for painting on the roofs of BMW-manufactured compact cars and as cover art for girl-band albums. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/130 "2016-03-26T16:25:05Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Shoulda gone with the kiwi with laser bolt eyes as the alternative. Aye, that was my choice as well; how can you argue with the artist’s statement? > [@James Gray](#): > > The laser beam projects a powerful image of New Zealand. I believe my design is so powerful it does not need to be discussed. See? You can’t argue with that. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/131 "2016-03-27T03:23:11Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Distinguishing New Zealand from the British empire and Australia is deeply offensive? Yes. They all have a deeply interconnected history and New Zealand had extremely close links (culturally in particular) to the UK until very recently. Also: There are more stars on the Australian flag and they’re a different colour. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/132 "2016-03-27T03:31:12Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Yes. They all have a deeply interconnected history and New Zealand had extremely close links (culturally in particular) to the UK until very recently. That’s fine. Lots of ways to reflect that in flags without literally copying one to another. > [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Also: There are more stars on the Australian flag and they’re a different colour. Some renderings fail to distinguish the colors. In any case, each has been mistaken or misused as the other. They’re too similar to _serve the purpose of flags_. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/133 "2016-03-27T03:33:10Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Yes. They all have a deeply interconnected history and New Zealand had extremely close links (culturally in particular) to the UK until very recently. > > Also: There are more stars on the Australian flag and they’re a different colour. That’s an explanation of your preference. It’s not an explanation of why changing it is an “offensive” idea. Although I believe there were plenty of Canadians who said such things when the Maple Leaf flag was adopted. That still doesn’t establish that it is actually offensive to change a flag that has such obvious colonial symbology. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/134 "2016-03-27T03:34:54Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > That’s an explanation of your preference. It’s not an explanation of why changing it is an “offensive” idea. > > Although I believe there were plenty of Canadians who said such things when the Maple Leaf flag was adopted. That still doesn’t establish that it is actually offensive to change a flag that has such obvious colonial symbology. It is if you think Colonialism has been a net benefit for the country in question. Which, in New Zealand’s case, it unmistakeably has. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/135 "2016-03-27T03:41:02Z")
My reaction to the outcome is a shrug. I wouldn’t have minded the new flag so much, and I don’t mind the old flag remaining. At least the people got to vote. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/136 "2016-03-27T04:40:40Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > It is if you think Colonialism has been a net benefit for the country in question. Which, in New Zealand’s case, it unmistakeably has. Again, this is just an argument for your preference, which is taken into account in a democratic process. It doesn’t explain why you say it is “deeply offensive.” Wait, are you originally from New Zealand? ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/137 "2016-03-27T05:01:36Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Again, this is just an argument for your preference, which is taken into account in a democratic process. It doesn’t explain why you say it is “deeply offensive.” > > Wait, are you originally from New Zealand? Yes, I am. I thought that was reasonably well known around here? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/138 "2016-03-27T11:04:20Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Yes, I am. I thought that was reasonably well known around here? When I saw that your location was Sustralia I got confused. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413/139 "2016-03-27T11:08:13Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > It is if you think Colonialism has been a net benefit for the country in question. Which, in New Zealand’s case, it unmistakeably has. For me I think colonialism was great, and I think for a very l9ng time the flag suited us. For where we are NOW though I feel we’ve moved on and developed a different identity as a nation that is no loger fully represented by the union jack. Which is why I supported a Koru / Fern for change with the Southern Cross as a link to pur past [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-is-choosing-a-new-flag/725413.md?page=6)