# New Zealand to completely outlaw smoking **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 9, 2021, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-to-completely-outlaw-smoking/955804 "2021-12-09T23:23:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-to-completely-outlaw-smoking/955804/146 "2021-12-13T21:42:40Z")
Pshaw, I just wanted to say 'double monkey punch" to remind people of what they’re dealing with. Back on topic, Australia could try to stop people from smoking by using large aerial firefighting aircraft. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-to-completely-outlaw-smoking/955804/147 "2021-12-13T22:22:43Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Australia could try to stop people from smoking by using large aerial firefighting aircraft. Revenge of [**Paraquat Pot**](https://thoughtcatalog.com/jeremy-london/2018/08/paraquat-pot/) ? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-to-completely-outlaw-smoking/955804/148 "2021-12-13T22:59:37Z")
Revenge of the [Fire Fighting Expert of Notre Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584). ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-to-completely-outlaw-smoking/955804/149 "2021-12-13T23:15:04Z")
Yes, and even brand placement. Tobacco brand placement is no longer kosher, but Big Tobacco can still bribe film companies to show smoking is cool… and they are doing just that. ---
**Author:** ![Retzbu\_Tox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/retzbu_tox/32/11829_2.png) [@Retzbu\_Tox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Retzbu_Tox)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-to-completely-outlaw-smoking/955804/150 "2021-12-13T23:22:19Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > But they wouldn’t have me, I’m sure. New Zealand considers catfish to be an invasive species. [https://www.lernz.co.nz/research-themes/invasive-fish#:~:text=Catfish%20are%20significant%20invaders%20that,internationally%20as%20an%20invasive%20species](https://www.lernz.co.nz/research-themes/invasive-fish#:~:text=Catfish%20are%20significant%20invaders%20that,internationally%20as%20an%20invasive%20species). ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-to-completely-outlaw-smoking/955804/151 "2021-12-14T00:18:23Z")
See? What did I tell ya? ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-to-completely-outlaw-smoking/955804/152 "2021-12-14T00:54:59Z")
In an article I read on the New Zealand law, they acknowledged two issues raised in this thread: the black market and medical treatment. > [@](#): > > As New Zealand unveiled its proposal, the government acknowledged the possible effects on the black market, which currently makes up at least 10 percent of tobacco sales in the country. > > It said that smuggling of tobacco products into New Zealand, particularly by organized crime groups, had been rising. “The changes proposed in this document may contribute to this problem,” the government’s proposal notes. > > But Dr. Robert Beaglehole, a professor emeritus of medicine at the University of Auckland, said there were potential solutions. “We can deal with it, if we only scanned every container coming into the country, which we don’t,” he said. “The technology is there.”… > > In addition to the gradual ban on cigarette sales, the proposed legislation would increase funding for addiction services, limit where cigarettes can be sold and reduce the amount of nicotine in cigarettes. Vaping products, which the government has embraced as a safer alternative, would not be affected by the law. The last sentence still confounds me. They will still have a new generation potentially addicted to nicotine; why not get rid of vaping (which is apparently what kids these days are into, anyway), too? [https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/09/world/asia/new-zealand-smoking-ban.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/09/world/asia/new-zealand-smoking-ban.html) ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-to-completely-outlaw-smoking/955804/154 "2021-12-14T00:58:27Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > {…} But Dr. Robert Beaglehole {…} Cred totally blown. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-to-completely-outlaw-smoking/955804/155 "2021-12-14T00:59:00Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > Cred totally blown. I totally didn’t notice the name until just now! ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-to-completely-outlaw-smoking/955804/156 "2021-12-14T01:42:24Z")
I just removed 47 posts to their own hijack thread. Please stick to the topic of the New Zealand smoking ban in this thread. If you want to talk about that topic, it’s here: > [@Nanny States and Covid Vaccines: Hijack of NZ smoking thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-states-and-covid-vaccines-hijack-of-nz-smoking-thread/956018): > > Thing is that many Republicans are becoming anti-vaccine and anti-mask thanks to that kind of mentality. In other news I see that there is a lot of federal help going to the tornado disasters in Kentucky, even if that will benefit many of the ones that claim to be against the government helping in other issues, I agree with our taxpayer money going to help people that usually oppose what their own government asks for. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-to-completely-outlaw-smoking/955804/157 "2021-12-14T17:09:44Z")
It would be hard to make a piece of a certain period without a great deal of smoking in it. Some of us are old enough to remember our doctors entering the exam room with a lit cigarette. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-to-completely-outlaw-smoking/955804/158 "2021-12-14T17:12:16Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > It would be hard to make a piece of a certain period without a great deal of smoking in it. I wonder how the TV and film industry will work with this? I suppose they can use “blanks” - i.e. cigarettes that contain harmless tobacco alternatives. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-to-completely-outlaw-smoking/955804/159 "2021-12-14T19:55:35Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > I suppose they can use “blanks” - i.e. cigarettes that contain harmless tobacco alternatives. Mostly harmless, anyway. > **[Smoking in films: light up, camera, action](https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/features/smoking-in-films-light-up-camera-action-9059744.html)** > > Smoking on screen is sexy again, but even fake cigarettes have side effects for the actors, finds Gerard Gilbert > It wasn’t a real ciggie, a proper tobacco-nicotine death stick, but a relatively harmless herbal one donated by the props man while visiting the Budapest set of a new biopic of Ian Fleming due out later [in 2014]. Dominic Cooper (The History Boys) plays the Bond creator, and over the course of a day’s filming I watched Cooper and his co-star Anna Chancellor inhale countless of these herbal gaspers, allowing the plume to snake up from their lips to their nostrils before swallowing it again with seasoned aplomb. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-to-completely-outlaw-smoking/955804/160 "2021-12-14T20:28:20Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > > [@Magiver](#): > > > > It would depend on their rights as set down in New Zealand. It’s not likely to survive a legal test in the US but that’s a different story. > > Riiiggghhht, that’s why no recreational drug has ever been banned at any time in American history The difference is this isn’t a universal ban, nor is it just a ban for minors. It’s a ban that would apply to some adults and not others. That does raise novel concerns in the U.S. system. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-to-completely-outlaw-smoking/955804/161 "2021-12-14T21:12:07Z")
How are those novel? Adults who are 20 and adults who are 21 have different access to the otherwise perfectly legal drug, alcohol. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-to-completely-outlaw-smoking/955804/162 "2021-12-14T21:18:20Z")
As pointed out above (I think twice), the difference is when the people who are 20 turns 21 today, they get access, but in this setup, they won’t…forever. And in the US at least, the folks who are 20 have only gotten to vote for 2 years at this point…and those younger than 18 not at all. So it’s all good since they didn’t get to really vote on this. Might not continue to be all good down the road though, but maybe it will. Who knows? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-to-completely-outlaw-smoking/955804/163 "2021-12-14T21:21:59Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > How are those novel? Adults who are 20 and adults who are 21 have different access to the otherwise perfectly legal drug, alcohol. The courts have never (to my knowledge) had to decide if it’s permissible to have a product legal for 45 year olds and illegal for 44 year olds, and as others have noted, have a cohort of citizens who will _never_ be legal users. They have certainly upheld general age restrictions (18 or 21 being the most common). I’m not saying the courts would strike this down, but it does pose different issues than saying only adults can smoke or you have to be 16 to drive. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-to-completely-outlaw-smoking/955804/164 "2021-12-14T21:22:49Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Adults who are 20 and adults who are 21 have different access to the otherwise perfectly legal drug, alcohol. I can see the argument that says the 21yo was barred at one time and the 20yo will not be barred in the future, so it doesn’t violate equal protection. There’s also the argument that says a fixed birthdate restriction creates a perpetual difference in rights, and does violate equal protection. However, we have changed the ages of these rights over time without apparent civil rights violations. What if you increased the age by 1 year every 2 years? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-to-completely-outlaw-smoking/955804/165 "2021-12-14T21:42:07Z")
Why? I have seen films made during the 40’s,. 50’s etc with little or no smoking, and it didn’t bother me. Since prehistory, people have been pissing and shitting, and they rarely include those scenes. Do we see people blowing or picking their nose? Unless it is to make a plot point? Coughing? Trust me, those smokers coughed a lot, nasty wet sounding coughs too. No, all those common daily or hourly actions are not included- unless it is to make a plot point. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2021, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-to-completely-outlaw-smoking/955804/166 "2021-12-21T06:14:02Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > A ban on smoking entirely, when alone and in your own house, only harms the person smoking and has no effect on others. Not true. 20% of house fires are caused by smoking (that smoker, alone in their own house, falling asleep while smoking and starting the house on fire. And a burning house, with the possibility f spreading to other houses, and the need for an expensive Fire Department to put out the fire, and ambulances & hospitals to aid the smoker – all these are effects on others. And in your calculation of the public costs of smoking, did you include 20% of the costs of Fire Departments? And of homeowners; insurance? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-to-completely-outlaw-smoking/955804.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-zealand-to-completely-outlaw-smoking/955804.md?page=7)