# Newbie's question on "A Song of Ice and Fire" (No Spoilers, Please) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 15, 2012, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newbies-question-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-no-spoilers-please/615848 "2012-03-15T10:47:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Eutychus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Eutychus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eutychus)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newbies-question-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-no-spoilers-please/615848/1 "2012-03-15T10:47:13Z")
I am just about to finish the second book and loving it. However, the question comes to mind, having been burnt on series like “Lost” where the creators swore that all questions would be answered and then leaving us in the lurch … Has Martin ever given any indication that he knows exactly where he’s going? In other words, was the over reaching story arc completely worked out in his head when he started? Or is he creating it as he goes along. And, has he given any indication how many books the entire epic will turn out to be? ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newbies-question-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-no-spoilers-please/615848/2 "2012-03-15T10:50:11Z")
There are other threads here, but I’ll point out that Martin drops enough foreshadowing and hints that he gives the impression he knows where he’s heading. My guess is that he has the big plot arc in mind, but he’s filling in everything else on the fly. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newbies-question-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-no-spoilers-please/615848/3 "2012-03-15T11:24:12Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > There are other threads here, but I’ll point out that Martin drops enough foreshadowing and hints that he gives the impression he knows where he’s heading. My guess is that he has the big plot arc in mind, but he’s filling in everything else on the fly. Yeah. He probably knows who’s alive and who rules at the end, but not the specific journey. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newbies-question-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-no-spoilers-please/615848/4 "2012-03-15T13:43:13Z")
Yes, Martin said in an interview with Entertainment Weekly that the HBO producers know the broad strokes of how he wants to finish the series, just in case he’s hit by a bus. So, the idea is there, it’s just taking him forever to put pen to paper. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newbies-question-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-no-spoilers-please/615848/5 "2012-03-15T14:04:36Z")
Martin has claimed that the entire series will be 7 books. The problem comes with Book 4, a Feast of Crows, that ran long and he had to split it into two books. So book 4.5 which came out last July is titled A Dance of Dragons. I’m uncertain whether that means DoD is really book 5 or if there will be another book on top of the ones planned. Either way, the book he’s currently working on is The Winds of Winter followed by A Song of Spring which could possibly be the finale. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newbies-question-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-no-spoilers-please/615848/6 "2012-03-15T15:06:52Z")
I get the impression that Martin knows how things will be in the end. But he didn’t bother to make a _detailed_ outline on how to get there… Perhaps he now wishes he’d gone to that trouble–it is a gargantuan saga. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newbies-question-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-no-spoilers-please/615848/7 "2012-03-15T15:43:12Z")
What they said. He knows where it’s going. But he admits in the DVD commentary to making some small changes because of the TV series. He says this in regard to Osha, a character who will have a larger part in the books because of how much Martin liked the actress, and what Benioff and Weiss did with her in S1. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newbies-question-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-no-spoilers-please/615848/8 "2012-03-15T15:48:32Z")
I’ve slogged along so far, can’t stop now. ---
**Author:** ![MeanJoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanjoe/32/5693_2.png) [@MeanJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanJoe)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newbies-question-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-no-spoilers-please/615848/9 "2012-03-15T16:08:48Z")
The HBO series was my first intro to this and I loved the show and dove into the books. Having just finished book 5 (or book 4.5) this had better go somewhere. It seems to me that somewhere during 4 to 4.5/5 this story just went all over the damn place. I’ve lost a lot of enthusiasm and it turned into a slog for me. I want to read the next book and the finale but I’m very concerned now this is going to be one of those situations where the damn series just keeps going, and going, and going, and going. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newbies-question-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-no-spoilers-please/615848/10 "2012-03-15T16:50:23Z")
> [@MeanJoe](#): > > [snippage] but I’m very concerned now this is going to be one of those situations where the damn series just keeps going, and going, and going, and going. I think I’d be okay with that. Martin’s created a very compelling world. I imagine he’d like to get on to other things though. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newbies-question-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-no-spoilers-please/615848/11 "2012-03-15T17:07:00Z")
The trouble is, he HAS gone on to other things, while we’re waiting for him to get on with this one! Grrrr! ---
**Author:** ![Eutychus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Eutychus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eutychus)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newbies-question-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-no-spoilers-please/615848/12 "2012-03-15T17:26:34Z")
Corollary question … does he have anybody in mind to take over in case the unthinkable happens and he does die before he’s finished? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newbies-question-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-no-spoilers-please/615848/13 "2012-03-15T17:37:56Z")
There are things in the later books that are foreshadowed 2-3-4 books ago, there are things in the earlier books that completely change meaning after having read the later ones. He obviously has worked out not only the story of the books, but everything that happened before and probably what will happen after the books. ---
**Author:** ![TheonX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ed8c4c/32.png) [@TheonX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheonX)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newbies-question-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-no-spoilers-please/615848/14 "2012-03-15T17:51:38Z")
> [@Eutychus](#): > > Corollary question … does he have anybody in mind to take over in case the unthinkable happens and he does die before he’s finished? He is generally protective of his work, and has always said something to the effect that the story will remain unfinished. Whether he really means that, whether the HBO series (it is believed he shared the broad outline with them) can make it to the end, or whether anyone will release even his notes to get the outline of what he planned is unclear. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newbies-question-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-no-spoilers-please/615848/15 "2012-03-15T18:54:33Z")
Interesting username/thread content combo there, **Theon**. How’re the Iron Islands treating you? ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newbies-question-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-no-spoilers-please/615848/16 "2012-03-15T18:56:46Z")
Silly Horseshoe, that’s TheonG. ---
**Author:** ![Eutychus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Eutychus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eutychus)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newbies-question-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-no-spoilers-please/615848/17 "2012-03-15T19:03:30Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > Silly Horseshoe, that’s TheonG. I asked you not to spoil it for me. That tells me that there will be Theons H - W! ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newbies-question-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-no-spoilers-please/615848/18 "2012-03-15T20:04:15Z")
Hmmmn. And if I told you you were wrong that’s a spoiler too, right? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newbies-question-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-no-spoilers-please/615848/19 "2012-03-15T20:05:11Z")
> [@Eutychus](#): > > Corollary question … does he have anybody in mind to take over in case the unthinkable happens and he does die before he’s finished? I think he only told the HBO producers so they could finish the show. If he has anyone in mind to finish the novels, he has not said so. I wouldn’t expect him to, either. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newbies-question-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-no-spoilers-please/615848/20 "2012-03-15T20:35:59Z")
If you’re gnashing your teeth waiting for GRRM’s SOIAF book, go chew on his “Wild Card” series (he edited them all, and wrote a fair number of the chapters.) That’ll keep you busy for a while. Given GRRM’s popularity, I’m surprised the publishers are not pushing that series harder. It’s tough to find copies of the early volumes. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newbies-question-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-no-spoilers-please/615848.md?page=2)