# Newish eBay/PayPal Rule -- made me be done with both of them (longish) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 19, 2009, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newish-ebay-paypal-rule-made-me-be-done-with-both-of-them-longish/506992 "2009-08-19T20:47:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DudleyGarrett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DudleyGarrett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DudleyGarrett)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newish-ebay-paypal-rule-made-me-be-done-with-both-of-them-longish/506992/41 "2009-08-20T19:47:40Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > look up the words “dogmatic” and “pompous” Nope, not seeing the humor in those definitions. Can you point out where I should be laughing? ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newish-ebay-paypal-rule-made-me-be-done-with-both-of-them-longish/506992/42 "2009-08-20T19:49:10Z")
> [@DudleyGarrett](#): > > Nope, not seeing the humor in those definitions. Can you point out where I should be laughing? using the word “funny” does not necessarily imply laughter, chuckles. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newish-ebay-paypal-rule-made-me-be-done-with-both-of-them-longish/506992/43 "2009-08-20T19:52:08Z")
> [@DudleyGarrett](#): > > Are you not aware that any retailer from which you buy an item on-line will charge your credit card as soon as the item is shipped, regardless if any tracking numbers are recorded and sent? Neither the buyer or me are responsible for USPS, UPS or FedEx, that’s why we pay for shipping insurance. That is also why retailers charge your credit card as soon as the item is shipped. They’ve done their part and they don’t have responsibility for shipping carriers either. Back in my old days in wholesale industrial distribution, we used to call that “F.O.B. shipping point”, which meant that the responsibility and risk, with respect to the goods ordered, was completely ours (the buyer’s). There were a few companies who shipped to us and accepted risk with respect to the goods until they were delivered to us (meaning the trucker got a signature). We called that “F.O.B. delivered.” I never did learn what “F.O.B.” stood for, but someone told me it was “Free On Board”, which made no sense, so I didn’t believe it. (Though it could be one of those 19th century expressions that just stuck, I guess.) I also recall that at that time we had to charge sales tax on the freight for items we received when we resold them, but not on any freight charges that we ourselves levied for our own delivery. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newish-ebay-paypal-rule-made-me-be-done-with-both-of-them-longish/506992/44 "2009-08-20T19:52:17Z")
> [@DudleyGarrett](#): > > It seems that nearly every poster in this thread agrees with me, except for you. > [@Rigamarole](#): > > Did you read my post? I think you are as much of an impatient and entitled jackass as R\_W does. I also think the OP is not being reasonable. If we’re counting. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newish-ebay-paypal-rule-made-me-be-done-with-both-of-them-longish/506992/45 "2009-08-20T19:54:55Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Back in my old days in wholesale industrial distribution, we used to call that “F.O.B. shipping point”, which meant that the responsibility and risk, with respect to the goods ordered, was completely ours (the buyer’s). There were a few companies who shipped to us and accepted risk with respect to the goods until they were delivered to us (meaning the trucker got a signature). We called that “F.O.B. delivered.” > > I never did learn what “F.O.B.” stood for, but someone told me it was “Free On Board”, which made no sense, so I didn’t believe it. (Though it could be one of those 19th century expressions that just stuck, I guess.) > > I also recall that at that time we had to charge sales tax on the freight for items we received when we resold them, but not on any freight charges that we ourselves levied for our own delivery. It means Free or Freight on Board - they’re called INCO terms. They’re necessary for international commerce in specifying who incurs the shipping cost, and when risk-of-loss passes from the seller to the buyer. EDIT: They’re used in domestic commerce, too. and still used today in business-to-business deals where payment is invoiced 30-days out… ZOMG! holy shit, Dudley… did you just read that? The seller doesn’t get paid for 30 days after he completes delivery!!! OMFG! ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newish-ebay-paypal-rule-made-me-be-done-with-both-of-them-longish/506992/46 "2009-08-20T19:56:38Z")
Wow, thanks! That makes sense. Now I finally know what it stands for. Thank you, Rumor\_Watkins! ---
**Author:** ![DudleyGarrett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DudleyGarrett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DudleyGarrett)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newish-ebay-paypal-rule-made-me-be-done-with-both-of-them-longish/506992/47 "2009-08-20T19:57:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I also think the OP is not being reasonable. Explain, other than throwing the “well, it’s in the fine print” argument. Also, give me any other type of financial transaction where a third party holds funds after one side of the transaction is completed (one side has been delivered goods). ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newish-ebay-paypal-rule-made-me-be-done-with-both-of-them-longish/506992/48 "2009-08-20T20:00:04Z")
> [@DudleyGarrett](#): > > Also, give me any other type of financial transaction where a third party holds funds after one side of the transaction is completed (one side has been delivered goods). I told you, already. It’s called Escrow. And it’s because the transaction ISN’T COMPLETE UNTIL THE BUYER HAS A CHANCE TO RECEIVE THE GOODS AND MAKE SURE THEY ARE WHAT HE PAID FOR. ---
**Author:** ![DudleyGarrett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DudleyGarrett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DudleyGarrett)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newish-ebay-paypal-rule-made-me-be-done-with-both-of-them-longish/506992/49 "2009-08-20T20:00:05Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > It means Free or Freight on Board - they’re called INCO terms. > > They’re necessary for international commerce in specifying who incurs the shipping cost, and when risk-of-loss passes from the seller to the buyer. > EDIT: They’re used in domestic commerce, too. and still used today in business-to-business deals where payment is invoiced 30-days out… ZOMG! holy shit, Dudley… did you just read that? The seller doesn’t get paid for 30 days after he completes delivery!!! OMFG! So if you buy an item from [bestbuy.com](http://bestbuy.com), do they not get their payment immediately? But we’re not talking about B2B deals here with a purchase order system, are we? ---
**Author:** ![DudleyGarrett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DudleyGarrett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DudleyGarrett)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newish-ebay-paypal-rule-made-me-be-done-with-both-of-them-longish/506992/50 "2009-08-20T20:02:15Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > I told you, already. It’s called Escrow. And it’s because the transaction ISN’T COMPLETE UNTIL THE BUYER HAS A CHANCE TO RECEIVE THE GOODS AND MAKE SURE THEY ARE WHAT HE PAID FOR. I don’t believe I was asking you. But answer me this, what happens when I sent the buyer the correct item and he says I didn’t? \*\* jtgain\*\* asked up thread and no one answered. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newish-ebay-paypal-rule-made-me-be-done-with-both-of-them-longish/506992/51 "2009-08-20T20:03:47Z")
> [@DudleyGarrett](#): > > So if you buy an item from [bestbuy.com](http://bestbuy.com), do they not get their payment immediately? if you want to get hyper-technical, no, they don’t. they receive a promise from MasterCard to be paid at some point (which, shockingly, takes a little longer than the speed of light) for their promise to send you the goods. But you’re not bestbuy. you’re some penny-ante merchant on ebay who doesn’t have a reputation for trustworthiness. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newish-ebay-paypal-rule-made-me-be-done-with-both-of-them-longish/506992/52 "2009-08-20T20:04:55Z")
> [@DudleyGarrett](#): > > But answer me this, what happens when I sent the buyer the correct item and he says I didn’t? \*\* jtgain\*\* asked up thread and no one answered. no one answered because it’s not a germane question to paypal’s policy of holding release of credit card funds for 3 days after delivery. ---
**Author:** ![DudleyGarrett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DudleyGarrett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DudleyGarrett)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newish-ebay-paypal-rule-made-me-be-done-with-both-of-them-longish/506992/53 "2009-08-20T20:06:53Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > if you want to get hyper-technical, no, they don’t. they receive a promise from MasterCard to be paid at some point (which, shockingly, takes a little longer than the speed of light) for their promise to send you the goods. > > But you’re not bestbuy. you’re some penny-ante merchant on ebay who doesn’t have a reputation for trustworthiness. OK, see, I tried to engage you, one last time. But I’m having a hard time getting through your sarcasm, insults and question-dodging. This is my last reply to you. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newish-ebay-paypal-rule-made-me-be-done-with-both-of-them-longish/506992/54 "2009-08-20T20:09:48Z")
> [@DudleyGarrett](#): > > OK, see, I tried to engage you, one last time. But I’m having a hard time getting through your sarcasm, insults and question-dodging. This is my last reply to you. Well maybe if you genuinely asked the question and didn’t simultaneously presuppose the answer you thought was correct, I may have dialed down the asshole meter in my reply. If I misconstrued your post (which I admit I may have done) and it was a bona fide question, then I apologize for the snark. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newish-ebay-paypal-rule-made-me-be-done-with-both-of-them-longish/506992/55 "2009-08-20T20:21:53Z")
> [@DudleyGarrett](#): > > So if you buy an item from [bestbuy.com](http://bestbuy.com), do they not get their payment immediately? Best Buy is an established retailer, and if the item you get from them is faulty or your experience is unsatisfactory, there is an established procedure for returning it and getting your money back that they are usually happy to instate. You, on the other hand, are nobody. As pointed out. Why should random stranger on the Internet place his unwavering trust in you to sell him expensive electronics? Because you successfully sold a handful of Chia Pets back in the 1900s? Give it a break. You are not getting any sympathy here. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newish-ebay-paypal-rule-made-me-be-done-with-both-of-them-longish/506992/56 "2009-08-20T20:26:46Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > You, on the other hand, are nobody. As pointed out. Why should random stranger on the Internet place his unwavering trust in you to sell him expensive electronics? Because you successfully sold a handful of Chia Pets back in the 1900s? > > Give it a break. You are not getting any sympathy here. it’s not chia pets, yo; it’s hello kitty stickers. god damn you, show the man some respect! ---
**Author:** ![mischievous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mischievous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mischievous)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newish-ebay-paypal-rule-made-me-be-done-with-both-of-them-longish/506992/57 "2009-08-20T20:26:50Z")
Count me in as someone who thinks that making you wait _three whole days_ to release funds is both tolerable and sensible policy. Particularly since it applies only to people with low feedback ratings selling expensive items. Paypal has screwed people over in many, many ways, but this isn’t one of them. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newish-ebay-paypal-rule-made-me-be-done-with-both-of-them-longish/506992/58 "2009-08-20T21:11:33Z")
**Dudley** , I am here to formally inform you that you have formed a formal request for a pile-on with your assertion that virtually everyone in this thread agrees with you. In compliance with this request of yours, I am tendering to you my statement that your problem of having to wait three days to receive payment rates a 1 out of 10 on the sufferingometer - a meter which does not have a 0. There is nothing unreasonable about withholding payment until receipt of goods is confirmed. You have earned precisely one granular unit of pity from me for the stress having to wait in this manner has caused you - the smallest nonzero unit that can be provided. You will receive it in three days. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newish-ebay-paypal-rule-made-me-be-done-with-both-of-them-longish/506992/59 "2009-08-20T21:46:08Z")
> [@DudleyGarrett](#): > > Explain, other than throwing the “well, it’s in the fine print” argument. > > Also, give me any other type of financial transaction where a third party holds funds after one side of the transaction is completed (one side has been delivered goods). Well, the fine print is kinda integral to the deal. But OK, forget the fine print. Three days doesn’t seem like an onerous period to allow the buyer to open his package and verify that everything works. There’s no reason to imagine that a private seller, with no particular reputation to uphold, is to be so trusted by all concerned that he should get his payment instantly. Plus that’s what the private seller agreed to do when he used the service. In the fine print. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newish-ebay-paypal-rule-made-me-be-done-with-both-of-them-longish/506992/60 "2009-08-20T22:33:25Z")
Some sellers use a “clearing house” to process their credit card payments. It’s not like the merchant swipes the card, and bells ring at the bank or anything. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newish-ebay-paypal-rule-made-me-be-done-with-both-of-them-longish/506992.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newish-ebay-paypal-rule-made-me-be-done-with-both-of-them-longish/506992.md?page=4)