# News Flash: Arkansas Woman Gives Birth to 16th Child--Wants More **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 12, 2005, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-flash-arkansas-woman-gives-birth-to-16th-child-wants-more/325947 "2005-10-12T20:04:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-flash-arkansas-woman-gives-birth-to-16th-child-wants-more/325947/61 "2005-10-13T19:58:52Z")
> [@Honey](#): > > Didn’t notice the eye thing but, I think it’s possible she’s hiding at least 2 more babies in her hair. 😃 Isn’t this something (growing super long hair) a lot of very religious rural women do? Is it related to the Bible admonition of a women’s hair being her “crowning glory”, or is it just a country girl thing? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-flash-arkansas-woman-gives-birth-to-16th-child-wants-more/325947/62 "2005-10-13T20:25:13Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Isn’t this something (growing super long hair) a lot of very religious rural women do? Is it related to the Bible admonition of a women’s hair being her “crowning glory”, or is it just a country girl thing? Long hair is sexy! ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Woo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7c8e57/32.png) [@Dr.Woo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Woo)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-flash-arkansas-woman-gives-birth-to-16th-child-wants-more/325947/63 "2005-10-13T20:48:49Z")
You know, with them currently living in a 3 bedroom 2 bath home with 16 kids, WHEN and WHERE do they make more babies? ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-flash-arkansas-woman-gives-birth-to-16th-child-wants-more/325947/64 "2005-10-13T21:11:03Z")
> [@Obsidian](#): > > Have you ever been to the mall at 3:30 PM? I’m not even christian, but I’m starting to think idle hands really do make the devil’s work. I bet these people’s kids are better behaved that 90% of the brats running around out there. > > Christ I sound like an old man. Ha- I hate to point this out, but saying stuff like that is The First Sign of Old-Man- ;)age. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![SusanStoHelit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@SusanStoHelit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SusanStoHelit)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-flash-arkansas-woman-gives-birth-to-16th-child-wants-more/325947/65 "2005-10-13T21:14:25Z")
> [@Carnac the Magnificent!](#): > > Here’s a bit more information, culled from a television documentary the Duggans were on. > > Jim Bob and Mom belong to the Full Quiver movement, a group that believes people should “receive” as many children as God blesses them with. The women refer to themselves as, um, Prairie Muffins. Here are a few of the more interesting tenets from the Prairie Muffin credo: > "Prairie Muffins recognize that there is a real battle in which they are on the front lines: the battle of the seed of the woman against the seed of the serpent > > Prairie Muffins place their husbands’ needs and desires above other obligations, arranging their schedules and responsibilities so that they do not neglect the one who provides for and protects them and their children. > > Prairie Muffins are fiercely submissive to God and to their husbands. > > Prairie Muffins try to maintain a peaceful environment for their families by keeping their voices quiet and their tones gentle as much as possible. > > Key words in doctine: “Intensely accommodating, ferociously acquiescent, and brutally compliant.” > > Any questions? Wow. From their [website](http://www.prairiemuffins.com/manifesto.php), they call single women “Muffin Mixes” and children “Mini Muffins” I had no idea this movement existed. Also: > [@](#): > > 1. This society worships rugged individualists, and lone ranger Christians are often the rule rather than the exception. While we know that it is becoming more difficult to find family-friendly and biblically-based churches, Prairie Muffins reject the notion that commitment to a local church is optional. We affirm the importance of the church in our families’ lives, and we willingly submit to its leaders. It is our desire to raise children who are life-long worshipers in the pew and future leaders of strong churches. The Duggars aren’t very good QuiverFulls, are they? ---
**Author:** ![SusanStoHelit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@SusanStoHelit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SusanStoHelit)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-flash-arkansas-woman-gives-birth-to-16th-child-wants-more/325947/66 "2005-10-13T21:19:25Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Actually it’s kind of amusing on the flip side, in my googling for pics of the Duggar brood one of the hits was the Strormfront site comnmenting on baby # 15 , where the members were just tickled pink that Momma was making so many little white babies. Nationalvanguard dot org also has an artcle congratulating Momma on doing her part to keep “White living space” full of white babies. ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-flash-arkansas-woman-gives-birth-to-16th-child-wants-more/325947/67 "2005-10-13T21:43:18Z")
> [@Harriet the Spry](#): > > Just joining the thread to say I do think there is something wrong with raising girls to consider no path other than becoming housewives. That bothered me the first time I ever heard about this family. The household chores are divided strictly along gender lines – the boys help build the house, the girls cook and make clothes. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-flash-arkansas-woman-gives-birth-to-16th-child-wants-more/325947/68 "2005-10-13T21:54:39Z")
**Blaron** , that only supposes that one’s values are genetic. It’s very possible for one of the Duggar offspring to leave the fold someday, or for someone to rebel somewhere down the line. ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-flash-arkansas-woman-gives-birth-to-16th-child-wants-more/325947/69 "2005-10-13T22:06:21Z")
Fiercely submissive? “C’mon, don’t just sit there with your slippers and your newspaper. Order me around, you lazy b_st_rd!” ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-flash-arkansas-woman-gives-birth-to-16th-child-wants-more/325947/70 "2005-10-13T23:47:31Z")
> [@Carnac the Magnificent!](#): > > Key words in doctine: “Intensely accommodating, ferociously acquiescent, and brutally compliant.” This is what I’d look for…if I were adopting a dog. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-flash-arkansas-woman-gives-birth-to-16th-child-wants-more/325947/71 "2005-10-13T23:54:23Z")
> [@phall0106](#): > > Which I’m sure will fall on the floor one unsupecting moment in the near future. “There was an old woman who lived in a shoe She had so many children, her uterus fell out. WHOA!” ---
**Author:** ![Mississippienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@Mississippienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mississippienne)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-flash-arkansas-woman-gives-birth-to-16th-child-wants-more/325947/72 "2005-10-14T00:07:15Z")
For what it’s worth, I’m a hardcore atheist but I don’t see anything wrong with these people raising their children to value their beliefs. Why’s it okay to bash people for the “immoral” and “irresponsible” way they’re raising their children, when you probably wouldn’t want people talking about you that way? It also seems that people are just digging for reasons this family would have to be dysfunctional – not enough toys at Christmas? Please! If that’s the worst crime the Duggars inflict upon their children, I’d say all sixteen of 'em are gonna be just fine. Re: the Stormfront stuff, why should that be an issue? The Duggars may be hardcore Christians, but it doesn’t follow Xtians = white supremacists. I haven’t seen anything from either Ma or Pa Duggar that suggests that they’re racist or support Stormfront in any way. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-flash-arkansas-woman-gives-birth-to-16th-child-wants-more/325947/73 "2005-10-14T00:12:08Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > For what it’s worth, I’m a hardcore atheist but I don’t see anything wrong with these people raising their children to value their beliefs. Why’s it okay to bash people for the “immoral” and “irresponsible” way they’re raising their children, when you probably wouldn’t want people talking about you that way? It also seems that people are just digging for reasons this family would have to be dysfunctional – not enough toys at Christmas? Please! If that’s the worst crime the Duggars inflict upon their children, I’d say all sixteen of 'em are gonna be just fine. > > Re: the Stormfront stuff, why should that be an issue? The Duggars may be hardcore Christians, but it doesn’t follow Xtians = white supremacists. I haven’t seen anything from either Ma or Pa Duggar that suggests that they’re racist or support Stormfront in any way. I think it’s more that the girls are not given any other choice or education beyond “housewife.” NOT that there’s anything wrong with a person choosing to be a houswife. But the boys are given the option of going to college, and their daughters aren’t. That’s just wrong, in my view. ---
**Author:** ![Omega\_Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7c8e57/32.png) [@Omega\_Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omega_Glory)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-flash-arkansas-woman-gives-birth-to-16th-child-wants-more/325947/74 "2005-10-14T00:22:19Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > For what it’s worth, I’m a hardcore atheist but I don’t see anything wrong with these people raising their children to value their beliefs. Why’s it okay to bash people for the “immoral” and “irresponsible” way they’re raising their children, when you probably wouldn’t want people talking about you that way? The fact of the matter is that somewhere out there, someone _is_ talking about you that way. No matter what you do in life, someone’s not going to like it. As long as you’re in the clear legally, and no one is trying to harm you or take away your right to live your life as you see fit, then what’s the problem? It’s unrealistic to expect people not to be leary of non-mainstream behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnac_the_Magnificent)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-flash-arkansas-woman-gives-birth-to-16th-child-wants-more/325947/75 "2005-10-14T01:12:24Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I think it’s more that the girls are not given any other choice or education beyond “housewife.” NOT that there’s anything wrong with a person choosing to be a houswife. But the boys are given the option of going to college, and their daughters aren’t. That’s just wrong, in my view. Agreed, but it goes much further than that. These throwback parents are indoctrinating their children with the notion that women should be “intensely accommodating, ferociously acquiescent, and brutally compliant.” That kind of belief system–and its day-to-day realities–is damn backward and sounds like emotional enslavement. When I see brutal compliance, I wonder about coercion and the absence of a healthy, individualized self. What happens to the Duggan girl who defies this God-issued edict? Does she get Jim Bob’s backhand, his glare, does she get chastised that she is defying the will of the almighty? Or is the psychological condition more insidious? This mind-melding stuff is best reserved for cults and, no, I think the odds are against any of these girls rebelling is sadly low. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-flash-arkansas-woman-gives-birth-to-16th-child-wants-more/325947/76 "2005-10-14T05:28:23Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > **Blaron** , that only supposes that one’s values are genetic. It’s very possible for one of the Duggar offspring to leave the fold someday, or for someone to rebel somewhere down the line. Not genetic per se, but if you have an 18 year opportunity to indoctrinate someone chances are pretty good they’ll stick with your indoctrination. How do you think the Amish are still around? ---
**Author:** ![Telperien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@Telperien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperien)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-flash-arkansas-woman-gives-birth-to-16th-child-wants-more/325947/77 "2005-10-14T05:36:39Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Isn’t this something (growing super long hair) a lot of very religious rural women do? Is it related to the Bible admonition of a women’s hair being her “crowning glory”, or is it just a country girl thing? It can be a religious thing. All the Pentecostal women, for example, I have ever known, grow their hair out long. And pouf it up fiercely in the front, but that’s not a length issue. ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-flash-arkansas-woman-gives-birth-to-16th-child-wants-more/325947/78 "2005-10-14T05:37:04Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Not genetic per se, but if you have an 18 year opportunity to indoctrinate someone chances are pretty good they’ll stick with your indoctrination. How do you think the Amish are still around? Some people dig it. The Amish children often rebel in their later teenage years, some dig their newfound freedom and leave and other return because they liked being Amish. While the idea of having to restrict myself to a 19th century way of living doesn’t sound much fun, the sense of community they must have is appealing. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-flash-arkansas-woman-gives-birth-to-16th-child-wants-more/325947/79 "2005-10-14T09:41:06Z")
You don’t get to have and keep 16 kids unless you’re doing a damn good job of parenting them. I would imagine that the state has been over this family with a fine-toothed comb more times that you can mention. It’s not the way I’d raise my kids, but since I don’t want them to interfere in my life, I don’t see why I should get to interfere in theirs. To be honest, raising 16 kids the way they do is amazing…you want irresponsible, try my patient who had 14 siblings, all raised in a 3 room Dublin tenement in the 1950s, his dad was an alcoholic who worked on the docks, and his mother sold flowers from a street stall. If they can afford their children, are treating them properly and they have a religious objection to birth control, I don’t really see how it’s anyone else’s business what they do. But really, after 2 twin and 12 singleton pregnancies in less than 20 years, I can’t see her reproductive organs able to take much more before something ruptures or prolapses. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-flash-arkansas-woman-gives-birth-to-16th-child-wants-more/325947/80 "2005-10-14T12:19:00Z")
> [@irishgirl](#): > > But really, after 2 twin and 12 singleton pregnancies in less than 20 years, I can’t see her reproductive organs able to take much more before something ruptures or prolapses. I guess that will be Gods way of saying, “Your quiver is FULL.” I hope all of the kids move far away from their folks when they grow up. I don’t mean that they should flee their parents. It’s just that if they all get married to folks living near them, the genetic diversity of their home county will shrink and everyone in their town will be everyone elses first cousin. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-flash-arkansas-woman-gives-birth-to-16th-child-wants-more/325947.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-flash-arkansas-woman-gives-birth-to-16th-child-wants-more/325947.md?page=5)