# News story - cops arrest kids for underage drinking after seeing Facebook picture - really? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 28, 2009, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-story-cops-arrest-kids-for-underage-drinking-after-seeing-facebook-picture-really/519210 "2009-11-28T06:00:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Xan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/ac8455/32.png) [@Xan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xan)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-story-cops-arrest-kids-for-underage-drinking-after-seeing-facebook-picture-really/519210/41 "2009-11-30T06:20:01Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Yes, proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Denying it was beer would not pass the laugh test, and thus, not constitute a reasonable doubt. > > Is there a person in this thread who honestly, sincerely doubts that it was beer? Can you prove there was beer in the can and that said student had imbibed it? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-story-cops-arrest-kids-for-underage-drinking-after-seeing-facebook-picture-really/519210/42 "2009-11-30T06:20:53Z")
> [@Xan](#): > > Can you prove it? The pictures are sufficient to prove it. No jury would have a reasonable doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-story-cops-arrest-kids-for-underage-drinking-after-seeing-facebook-picture-really/519210/43 "2009-11-30T06:22:38Z")
> [@Xan](#): > > Can you prove there was beer in the can and that said student had imbibed it? It’s not necessary for them to have imbibed it. Minor in possession charges only require possession. I don’t even think it’s actually illegal for a minor to imbibe it, only to possess it. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-story-cops-arrest-kids-for-underage-drinking-after-seeing-facebook-picture-really/519210/44 "2009-11-30T06:23:48Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Yes, proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Denying it was beer would not pass the laugh test, and thus, not constitute a reasonable doubt. > > Is there a person in this thread who honestly, sincerely doubts that it was beer? That isn’t the point. It has to be proved. It’s not outside the realms of possibility that the person had emptied the beer out of the bottle and refilled it with a non-alcoholic drink, so they’d still appear “cool” to their mates, but without drinking alcohol (which, perhaps they have a religious or moral objection to). So they’d appear to be drinking from a can of beer, but they’re not actually consuming an alcoholic beverage, and no crime is being committed. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-story-cops-arrest-kids-for-underage-drinking-after-seeing-facebook-picture-really/519210/45 "2009-11-30T06:26:31Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > That isn’t the point. It has to be proved. It’s not outside the realms of possibility that the person had emptied the beer out of the bottle and refilled it with a non-alcoholic drink, so they’d still appear “cool” to their mates, but without drinking alcohol (which, perhaps they have a religious or moral objection to). > > So they’d appear to be drinking from a can of beer, but they’re not actually consuming an alcoholic beverage, and no crime is being committed. They are welcome to try this approach with a jury (though I seriously doubt this would ever go to trial), and the jury is free to laugh at it, which is exactly what they would do. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-story-cops-arrest-kids-for-underage-drinking-after-seeing-facebook-picture-really/519210/46 "2009-11-30T06:29:17Z")
Can I get a show of hands how many people here think it was beer in the kid’s hand? Wonderful. Can we retire this lovely strawman now? I would like to hear more about the validity of a picture as proof of a crime. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-story-cops-arrest-kids-for-underage-drinking-after-seeing-facebook-picture-really/519210/47 "2009-11-30T06:31:00Z")
> [@](#): > > But again, the defendent can’t just wave his hands and say “hey, it could be this, it could be that”. He’d need an actual story, if he says it was taken in Alberta, then he’d need a place in Alberta that looks like the inside of a U of W dormroom that he and all his room mates would’ve had a semi-plausable reason for visiting. I’d think that a perfectly adequate defense could consist entirely of “What, you’re going to convict me based on a photo? That’s ridiculous!”. Remember, it’s the prosecution that has the burden of proof, not the defendant. As for it being laughable that it would be anything other than beer, I have literally never drank a drop of beer in my life, but I have attended parties, and at some of those parties I’ve drunk things like root beer or creme soda, sometimes out of a bottle that looks an awful lot like a beer bottle (especially when it’s being held in the normal way, with the hand around the label). It’s even possible that there’s a picture of me holding or drinking from such a bottle online. If you’re going to go assuming that any beverage in the hands of a college student at a party must obviously be beer, then basically what you’re saying is that it’s illegal for a college student to attend any sort of social gathering, which flies pretty squarely in the face of the First Amendment. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-story-cops-arrest-kids-for-underage-drinking-after-seeing-facebook-picture-really/519210/48 "2009-11-30T06:31:23Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Can I get a show of hands how many people here think it was beer in the kid’s hand? > > Wonderful. Can we retire this lovely strawman now? I would like to hear more about the validity of a picture as proof of a crime. The two issues are related, surely? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-story-cops-arrest-kids-for-underage-drinking-after-seeing-facebook-picture-really/519210/49 "2009-11-30T06:36:11Z")
Well, I’m no expert, but I have taken cases like to this to trial, and have served as a judge _pro tem_ in a court where we handled cases of minor in possession. I can’t tell you what every judge or every prosecutor would do, but in my experience, a case would never be prosecuted based on a photograph alone and a judge would never allow a case to get to a jury if that is all the evidence a prosecutor had. There simply would not be sufficient evidence that a crime was committed. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-story-cops-arrest-kids-for-underage-drinking-after-seeing-facebook-picture-really/519210/50 "2009-11-30T06:38:11Z")
Was there any text on the Facebook pages admitting that they were drinking? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-story-cops-arrest-kids-for-underage-drinking-after-seeing-facebook-picture-really/519210/51 "2009-11-30T06:39:52Z")
> [@](#): > > I would like to hear more about the validity of a picture as proof of a crime. Before a photograph is even admissible at a trial, it must be “authenticated.” Someone has to testify that the photo accurately depicts what actually happened. Without someone saying, “this is my friend Jimmy drinking beer February 10th in our dorm room, in this state,” the photo would be useless to the prosecution. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-story-cops-arrest-kids-for-underage-drinking-after-seeing-facebook-picture-really/519210/52 "2009-11-30T06:41:20Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Was there any text on the Facebook pages admitting that they were drinking? Ok, have you ever tried authenticating a Facebook page in court? It’s a challenge. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-story-cops-arrest-kids-for-underage-drinking-after-seeing-facebook-picture-really/519210/53 "2009-11-30T06:43:26Z")
Sounds like it might no go anywhere then. Too bad. I think underage drinking should be hammered a lot harder than it currently is. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-story-cops-arrest-kids-for-underage-drinking-after-seeing-facebook-picture-really/519210/54 "2009-11-30T06:46:17Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Sounds like it might no go anywhere then. Too bad. I think underage drinking should be hammered a lot harder than it currently is. I’m not disagreeing with you. Except, the drinking age should be 18. You’re either an adult and have adult rights, or you’re not. That’s a separate debate. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-story-cops-arrest-kids-for-underage-drinking-after-seeing-facebook-picture-really/519210/55 "2009-11-30T06:49:37Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I’m not disagreeing with you. Except, the drinking age should be 18. You’re either an adult and have adult rights, or you’re not. That’s a separate debate. I agree, with the caveat that the driving age should also be 18. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-story-cops-arrest-kids-for-underage-drinking-after-seeing-facebook-picture-really/519210/56 "2009-11-30T06:50:18Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Sounds like it might no go anywhere then. Too bad. I think underage drinking should be hammered a lot harder than it currently is. I agree- but only if the drinking age is lowered to 18, and they only target _unsupervised_ underage drinking. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-story-cops-arrest-kids-for-underage-drinking-after-seeing-facebook-picture-really/519210/57 "2009-11-30T06:53:44Z")
How do you feel about underaged, supervised coke snorting? ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-story-cops-arrest-kids-for-underage-drinking-after-seeing-facebook-picture-really/519210/58 "2009-11-30T06:57:55Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > How do you feel about underaged, supervised coke snorting? I’m not even going to dignify something this ridiculous with an actual response. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-story-cops-arrest-kids-for-underage-drinking-after-seeing-facebook-picture-really/519210/59 "2009-11-30T08:40:50Z")
Just for some more examples of why Facebook and underage drinking pictures don’t mix, [here](http://ksusentinel.com/news/facebook-pictures-alcohol-do-not-mix/) is a story of a restaurant losing its liquor license after pictures of underage drinkers showed up on Facebook. [Here’s](http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local-beat/Facebook-Photos-Bust-Underage-Drinking-Party.html)a story about a couple who got ticketed after pictures of a party they hosted showing underage drinkers showed up on Facebook. [Here’s](http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=5890815) a story about high school students arrested after pictures of them drinking showed up on Facebook. ---
**Author:** ![GESancMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gesancman/32/2923_2.png) [@GESancMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GESancMan)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-story-cops-arrest-kids-for-underage-drinking-after-seeing-facebook-picture-really/519210/60 "2009-11-30T09:00:21Z")
I must be missing something here. I don’t know a whole lot about how Facebook works, but it seems to me that the only people that can look at my profile -\> pictures are people I have accepted as friends. And it appears to me that this level of privacy is the default, and very few people change it. So how are cops and whoever else getting these pictures? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-story-cops-arrest-kids-for-underage-drinking-after-seeing-facebook-picture-really/519210.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/news-story-cops-arrest-kids-for-underage-drinking-after-seeing-facebook-picture-really/519210.md?page=4)