# Newsom: CA to pass Texas-style law targeting gun sellers **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 12, 2021, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newsom-ca-to-pass-texas-style-law-targeting-gun-sellers/955930 "2021-12-12T05:17:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newsom-ca-to-pass-texas-style-law-targeting-gun-sellers/955930/41 "2021-12-13T20:53:53Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The leaders of the Republican party understand you dangle the carrot on a stick out in front of the horse; you don’t feed it to him. The leaders of the party aren’t the ones who will overturn it. They have already appointed those people to the Supreme Court. I think it’s very likely to be overturned in June of 2022. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newsom-ca-to-pass-texas-style-law-targeting-gun-sellers/955930/42 "2021-12-13T20:55:27Z")
The flaw is thinking that “The Republican Party” is the entity that will decide whether or not to overturn Roe. The members of the Supreme Court will make that decision for their own individual reasons, and the interests and motivation of the various factions that those members belong to do not necessarily align with the general electoral interests of the Republican Party. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The leaders of the Republican party understand you dangle the carrot on a stick out in front of the horse; you don’t feed it to him. The leaders of the Republican Party (whoever they may be) no longer have control of the carrot. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newsom-ca-to-pass-texas-style-law-targeting-gun-sellers/955930/43 "2021-12-13T21:04:05Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The leaders of the Republican party understand you dangle the carrot on a stick out in front of the horse; you don’t feed it to him. More like - you feed the horse _half_ of the carrot, with both you and him knowing that there are still 50 more carrots in the rider’s bag. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newsom-ca-to-pass-texas-style-law-targeting-gun-sellers/955930/44 "2021-12-13T21:29:54Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > If they do this, it becomes **the** issue to run on in 2022. There is no way the Democrats wouldn’t promise to pass a federal law. That’s actually the one upside to all of this: the majority of the country supports abortion. The majority may support legal abortion, but they don’t support it with the fervor with which the right opposes it. Someone who answers “yes” to a survey question may not feel they themselves have been robbed of a right if Roe is overturned and may not feel a law reasserting Roe is motivation enough to vote blue. (I should add I hope I’m wrong about this.) Meanwhile, the right can keep drumming up threats to unborn babies even without Roe, and no matter how ephemeral those threats are they’ll keep motivating GOP voters. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newsom-ca-to-pass-texas-style-law-targeting-gun-sellers/955930/45 "2021-12-13T21:35:53Z")
> [@GWF\_Hefel](#): > > Boy, I wonder how those partisan hacks on the big court are going to deal with this? I have no doubt of their ability to weaponize hypocrisy. “This is a ridiculous imposition on the rights of gun owners!” “But what about the Texas abortion law that’s built on the exact same principles?” “Abortion is completely different Because Reasons.” ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newsom-ca-to-pass-texas-style-law-targeting-gun-sellers/955930/46 "2021-12-13T21:37:40Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > “Abortion is completely different Because Reasons.” By the time this law ever makes it to SCOTUS, if it ever does, they will have already overturned Roe, so there will be no reason to come up with a reason to overturn this one but not the Texas one. The Texas one will no longer be needed, because abortion will already be illegal there, so they can overturn this stupid gun one with impunity. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newsom-ca-to-pass-texas-style-law-targeting-gun-sellers/955930/47 "2021-12-13T22:10:30Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Gun control is weakening as an issue for Democrats anyway, because so many Democrats have purchased guns in the past few years. Being a gun owner and being in favor of gun control are not automatically mutually exclusive. There are plenty of responsible gun owners who are okay with common-sense restrictions on purchasing and possession of guns, and AFAICT Democrats make up a substantial part of that group. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newsom-ca-to-pass-texas-style-law-targeting-gun-sellers/955930/48 "2021-12-13T22:34:12Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Can you provide some cites for violence running out of control in big Democratic cities? I’m pretty sure violent crime is down in big cities from, say, 5 or 10 years ago, but if you have a cite that shows otherwise, I’m happy to look at it. [https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/03/us/us-crime-rate-rise-2020/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/03/us/us-crime-rate-rise-2020/index.html) > [@](#): > > Major American cities saw a 33% increase in homicides last year as a pandemic swept across the country, millions of people joined protests against racial injustice and police brutality, and the economy collapsed under the weight of the pandemic — a crime surge that has continued into the first quarter of this year. This is what CNN (I hope you’ll agree this isn’t some right-wing source) says: > [@](#): > > Experts point to [a “perfect storm” of factors](https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/16/us/violent-crime-soars-confidence-in-police-takes-hit/index.html) – economic collapse, social anxiety because of a pandemic, **de-policing in major cities after protests that called for abolition of police departments,** shifts in police resources from neighborhoods to downtown areas because of those protests, and **the release of criminal defendants pretrial or before sentences were completed** to reduce risk of Covid-19 spread in jails – all may have contributed to the spike in homicides. > **[US records largest annual increase in murders in six decades](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/27/us-murder-rate-increase-2020)** > > National murder rate rises nearly 30%, with figure increasing across all regions and from small towns to cities [https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/12/us/homicides-major-cities-increase-end-of-year-2021/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/12/us/homicides-major-cities-increase-end-of-year-2021/index.html) Most of the new gun buyers are women and minorities livingnin big cities - and they aren’t gun nuts - many are first-time gun buyers. One thing I should rescind: I don’t think it’s fair to say ‘big Democratic cities’, because all big cities are pretty much run by Democrats. So if it’s just a big city thing, being Democratic may just be a correlation. But clearly there are policy-influenced causes here, from the revolving-door policiesmof progressive DAs to changes to theft laws in California. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newsom-ca-to-pass-texas-style-law-targeting-gun-sellers/955930/49 "2021-12-13T22:39:35Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Democrats aren’t buying guns to protect themselves from “crime,” they’re buying guns to protect themselves from Republicans. I’ve listed the reasons criminologists cite for the current violence. Conspicuously absent was fear of roving gangs of MAGA hat wearers, Do you have any cites to back you up? Other than Jussie Smollett, perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newsom-ca-to-pass-texas-style-law-targeting-gun-sellers/955930/50 "2021-12-13T22:45:33Z")
Here’s Chicago, for instance: [Downtown Chicago shootings up 220%, biggest rise in city: ‘People are fed up’ - Chicago Sun-Times (suntimes.com)](https://chicago.suntimes.com/2021/10/29/22751518/downtown-chicago-loop-shootings-murder-river-north) ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newsom-ca-to-pass-texas-style-law-targeting-gun-sellers/955930/51 "2021-12-13T22:48:50Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > People buying guns just for protection aren’t going to instantly be the same kind of gun nut as a committed 2nd Amendment “freedom fighter/patriot”. And if they didn’t think they actually needed the guns, I’d guess that the vast majority of them would be happy to give them up or put them in the back of the closet and never look at them again. Could be, but guns are expensive. And once you own one and take some training, the irrational fear of them tends to be mitigated. And so long as DAs keep releasing violent felons back into the population and look the other way with property crime and theft, conditions are going to remain such that people are not going to give up their guns, and more new gun owners will be created every day. The key argument Democrats have made against guns has always been that we have police to protect us and gun ownership is not required or a good idea for safety. Then Democrats started demonizing the police and telling people that police are the problem, and started advocating the defunding of police departments. Now murders are spiking, stores are boarded up in major cities and women and minorities bearing the brunt of these policies are arming up or moving away. They are also moving towards the Republican party politically. This was a self-own on the Democrats’ part. They undermined their own arguments against owning guns. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newsom-ca-to-pass-texas-style-law-targeting-gun-sellers/955930/52 "2021-12-13T22:49:22Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > So if it’s just a big city thing Your first link says “Murder increased in every geographic region, and in **small towns** and **suburban areas** as well as large cities.” So it’s not that, either. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newsom-ca-to-pass-texas-style-law-targeting-gun-sellers/955930/53 "2021-12-13T22:52:29Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > The key argument Democrats have made against guns has always been that we have police to protect us and gun ownership is not required or a good idea for safety. Then Democrats started demonizing the police and telling people that police are the problem, and started advocating the defunding of police departments. Now murders are spiking, stores are boarded up in major cities and women and minorities bearing the brunt of these policies are arming up or moving away. They are also moving towards the Republican party politically. > > This was a self-own on the Democrats’ part. They undermined their own arguments against owning guns. That isn’t even close to reality. But it does read like a Republican campaign ad. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newsom-ca-to-pass-texas-style-law-targeting-gun-sellers/955930/54 "2021-12-13T22:59:28Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > to changes to theft laws in California. While that probably affected non-violent crime, it doesn’t seem to have affected violent crime. From the [FBI database](https://crime-data-explorer.fr.cloud.gov/pages/explorer/crime/crime-trend): [![](https://i.imgur.com/pAMxOIa.png) ](https://i.imgur.com/pAMxOIa.png) Look at that. There was a significant uptick in violent crime across the US, as stated (though note the Y axis start; it’s not as bad as it looks). And yet in the Democratic Republik of California, the violent crime rate from 2019-2020 is flat. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newsom-ca-to-pass-texas-style-law-targeting-gun-sellers/955930/55 "2021-12-13T23:03:06Z")
It is a stunt. See gun manufacturers are protected from such lawsuits by Federal law. However, this should give the Dem congress an idea- make abortion clinics immune for lawsuits of the Texas sort. Please note- if your gun blows up due to a manufacturers error, etc, they are still liable, just like a clinic would be liable for a incompetently botched operation. What gun companies are immune from is being sued if their guns, once out of their control- are used in a crime. So, let Congress lass a law making clinic immune for lawsuits just for performing an abortion. > [@Bootb](#): > > The only reason California has been gaining population at all over the last several years is because the number of people moving to California **from other countries** has balanced out the number of Americans leaving California. The “exodus”,- due to every time I have seen or heard a person getting out- is retirees moving to cheaper states. True taxes are part of what makes CA a expensive state (but our property taxes are very low), but real estate is the BIG one. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > My understanding is that the proposed law doesn’t infringe on Second Amendment rights, as the ones who would be sued are the manufacturers, distributors and sellers, not the owners. Who are immune. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > The number of Americans who favor stricter gun laws has dropped from 60% in 2019 to 53% today. And most favor rather mild controls. Few want things like handgun bans. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > In the meantime, Californians are responding to idiotic progressive DA’s and their pro-violence policies by arming up: No one has “pro-violence policies”, and CA is 17th in violent crime rates (that isn’t good, but not bad) , the top ten states are AK, NM, TN, AR, LA, MS, SC, SD, AZ, MI. **8 are GOP.** It ain’t _idiotic progressive DA’s_ causing high violent crime rates, dude. > **[Reported violent crime rate in the U.S. by state 2022 | Statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/200445/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-us-states/)** > > In 2022, the District of Columbia had the highest reported violent crime rate in the United States, with 812.3 violent crimes per 100,000 of the population. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newsom-ca-to-pass-texas-style-law-targeting-gun-sellers/955930/56 "2021-12-13T23:06:37Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It is a stunt. See gun manufacturers are protected from such lawsuits by Federal law. “Sellers”, not “manufacturers”, is who the law will allow people to sue. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newsom-ca-to-pass-texas-style-law-targeting-gun-sellers/955930/57 "2021-12-13T23:09:26Z")
56%. > **[As violent crimes surge, Californians' faith in gun control slips in new poll](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-07-29/californians-lose-faith-in-effectiveness-of-gun-control-in-new-poll)** > > A new UC Berkeley Institute of Governmental Studies poll co-sponsored by the Los Angeles Times found that 56% of the state’s voters surveyed believe stronger laws restricting the sale and possession of guns help make their communities safer, but the... Only about 47% of the state is registered Democratic. > **[California Voter and Party Profiles](https://www.ppic.org/publication/california-voter-and-party-profiles/)** > > About 47% of registered voters are Democrats, 24% are Republicans, and 23% are independents. Most independent likely voters lean toward a major party. _About 47% of registered voters are Democrats , 24% are Republicans , and 23% are independents_ > [@Kimstu](#): > > Being a gun owner and being in favor of gun control are not automatically mutually exclusive. There are plenty of responsible gun owners who are okay with common-sense restrictions on purchasing and possession of guns, and AFAICT Democrats make up a substantial part of that group. I am one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newsom-ca-to-pass-texas-style-law-targeting-gun-sellers/955930/58 "2021-12-13T23:18:08Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > The key argument Democrats have made against guns has always been that we have police to protect us and gun ownership is not required or a good idea for safety. Then Democrats started demonizing the police and telling people that police are the problem […] No, the key argument that Democrats have made against guns is that it’s reasonable to regulate their acquisition and use. Most Democrats still agree with that argument whether they own a gun or not. Black Americans, for example who are overwhelmingly Democratic in their political affiliation, are both overwhelmingly likely to recognize problems with policing and overwhelmingly likely to favor gun control. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > women and minorities bearing the brunt of these policies are arming up or moving away. They are also moving towards the Republican party politically. You’ve got that backwards: Republicans are starting to support more women and minorities among their candidates, but that doesn’t mean that women and minorities overall are becoming more Republican. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newsom-ca-to-pass-texas-style-law-targeting-gun-sellers/955930/59 "2021-12-13T23:58:50Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I’ve listed the reasons criminologists cite for the current violence. Conspicuously absent was fear of roving gangs of MAGA hat wearers, Do you have any cites to back you up? I generally avoid reading your cites, because they never say what you claim they say. This is another good example. You claimed that Democrats were becoming more pro gun because they were afraid of crime. Then you cited a bunch of pieces talking about a rise in crime. Dramatically missing, here, is the part where you provide evidence that the former is being driven by the latter. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newsom-ca-to-pass-texas-style-law-targeting-gun-sellers/955930/60 "2021-12-14T00:12:57Z")
Thanks for the cites, but that’s a one year increase from near record lows. If you look at **Dr.Strangelove** ’s graphs, it’s flat from 2016, slightly down from 2010. If people weren’t buying guns like crazy to protect themselves from violence running out of control in 2010 (or before, when crime was higher still), I guess I don’t get why they would now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newsom-ca-to-pass-texas-style-law-targeting-gun-sellers/955930.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newsom-ca-to-pass-texas-style-law-targeting-gun-sellers/955930.md?page=4)