# Newspaper Posts Gun Owners' Names and Addresses **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 25, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newspaper-posts-gun-owners-names-and-addresses/645124 "2012-12-25T17:16:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newspaper-posts-gun-owners-names-and-addresses/645124/61 "2012-12-26T18:10:52Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > I would say that the argument you posted and what I am saying are pretty much the same. Not really. You added the bit about criminals knowing who owns a gun. Gun owners often argue the opposite: they don’t want criminal to know if they have a gun or not. > [@](#): > > I and the newspaper took that to its logical conclusion I’m not sure the newspaper employed any logic other than “people are worried about guns right now, so they’ll be interested in this.” And no, you’re not representing the logic accurately. > [@](#): > > Are you uncomfortable because it seems to presume that their beliefs are being tested and they might not stand up under scrutiny? This wouldn’t be a legitimate way to put their views to the test. We can already get data on gun ownership and crime rates; disclosing who has a handgun and who doesn’t sheds no light on the subject, and neither does looking at which of a small group of people was robbed after this publication. I’m also uncomfortable with this information being published just because there was a recent school shooting. I don’t think that justifies the paper’s decision. Like I said, I think they’re just playing to the fears of their audience. I’m also uncomfortable with the idea that people are inviting this kind of arguable violation of their privacy just because they own a gun, and I’m even less comfortable with the nonsense logic you’re trying to use to justify it. > [@](#): > > But you, The Safe Ones, are angry. I’m not a gun owner in upstate NY, and I’m not angry. I think the paper did something stupid, I think your arguments and your video game references are extremely weak. > [@artemis](#): > > That does make the situation slightly better, but it was still a dick thing to do. I’m not arguing that point. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newspaper-posts-gun-owners-names-and-addresses/645124/62 "2012-12-26T18:12:30Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Crafter\_Man View Post > The flip side is that criminals now know which homes have guns. They will burglarize the homes (looking for guns) when the homeowners are gone. I’ve met quite a few burglars in my day; none were newspaper readers. (of course, I only met the ones that got caught) ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newspaper-posts-gun-owners-names-and-addresses/645124/63 "2012-12-26T18:15:57Z")
Which law, by the way, is being violated in revealing the names and addresses of gun owners? If a newspaper wants to publish the names and addresses of all Lexus owners, or all Victoria’s Secret customers, it can do so legally, as far as I know, and the only reason they don’t is that no one really cares. If enough readers care about gun owners, or if the paper’s publsher is the only one who does, the paper may (and IMO should) freely publish such information. Unless someone wants to cite a law stating that gun-ownership must be kept private? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newspaper-posts-gun-owners-names-and-addresses/645124/64 "2012-12-26T18:19:52Z")
If I were a burglar, I’d certainly find this information useful. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newspaper-posts-gun-owners-names-and-addresses/645124/65 "2012-12-26T18:19:52Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Which law, by the way, is being violated in revealing the names and addresses of gun owners? If a newspaper wants to publish the names and addresses of all Lexus owners, or all Victoria’s Secret customers, it can do so legally, as far as I know, and the only reason they don’t is that no one really cares. If enough readers care about gun owners, or if the paper’s publsher is the only one who does, the paper may (and IMO should) freely publish such information. Unless someone wants to cite a law stating that gun-ownership must be kept private? I’ve only seen maybe one person suggest there should be a lawsuit over this (not counting you, who was doing it to make a point.) It’s not illegal for me to go to work tomorrow and fire my office assistant because I don’t like the way she wears her hair. But that doesn’t mean it isn’t a huge asshole thing to do. It also isn’t illegal for me to put an ad up on Craiglist tomorrow night with my next door neighbor’s address saying, “This person just bought a 72” LED TV." But it’s also an asshole thing to do. When people are making arguments about this being illegal, and I’ve not seen anyone really do that, and it certainly hasn’t been the focus of this thread, I’ll consider your comments about “what law has been broken” to be relevant. As of now, they aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newspaper-posts-gun-owners-names-and-addresses/645124/66 "2012-12-26T18:24:31Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > When the NRA is doing something you don’t like, most of you are silent. Even when surveys say that most NRA members actually want sensible gun control, the NRA’s position in reaction to the latest shooting is more guns for more people, in schools, hospitals, firehouses, wherever there can ever be a shooting. Let these people stand up and throw out the jokers who are leading the NRA because even if they don’t agree with them, they support their evils with their inaction. Because its awfully convenient to say nothing when the NRA defends your guns at any cost since it benefits you and you don’t have to squat, but when it turns around and does something that it gets chastised for you come out of the woodwork and say you don’t support them. Well if you don’t do something about it. Where is the hundred million gun owners who don’t belong to the NRA, who may think the opposite of them, standing up for gun control? They don’t exist, or they are too lazy or cowardly to say something. This post just highlights the ignorance and illogic of your argument here. 1. I’m not a member of the NRA. 2. The NRA defends gun ownership, and I am a gun owner, but they do not defend gun ownership in a manner that I want it defended. So I really don’t think I gain any benefit from their existence and thus I have absolutely no moral imperative to say anything about the NRA or “take them to task” for anything. That’s like saying all religious people should be concerned with refuting the arguments of the WBC, or all religious people think the crazy fundies who try to get 10 Commandments statues put everywhere are “representing the interests of the religious people in America” and thus they have a responsibility to in some way respond to or try and influence their behavior. That’s bull. 3. It’s simply fact that most gun owners are not members of the NRA. We have no positive requirement to advocate shit. Since it’s only really the NRA that is organized in lobbying against gun control, if anything you should probably be thankful the rest of the gun owning population is not politically involved in this debate. The NRA is a populist gun organization that believes everyone should be able to get guns aside from a narrow range of exceptions (felons / mentally ill.) I’m not populist in anything I do. I think most people should not be allowed to own any guns, and think those that choose to won guns for target shooting, self defense, or hunting should be required to undergo strict individual licensing and then strict licensing of each individual firearm they own. I’m not in favor of most people being able to freely exercise the right of firearms ownership, so the NRA is simply very far removed from my politics. Your asserting I should in some way be responsible for them is simply asinine. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newspaper-posts-gun-owners-names-and-addresses/645124/67 "2012-12-26T18:26:12Z")
Right. So no law is being broken here. Gun owners just don’t like it when their neighbors know who is a dangerous gun fetishist and who may not be. I wouldn’t let my kids play in a house owned by a gun-owner, for example, and would tend not to want to befriend anyone who kept guns in the house. (I have a few friends who do, btw, but I found that out after we became friends and I got to understand their characters better.) If you’re not ashamed of yourself for owning guns, grow a pair and live up to your neighbors’ opinions of you for owning guns. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newspaper-posts-gun-owners-names-and-addresses/645124/68 "2012-12-26T18:29:50Z")
P.S. I don’t own anything that I would object to your posting publicly. Do you want to know the size of my TV? Fine. The fact that I have an expensive oil painting hanging on my living room wall, or that I own several valuable first-editions? That I have a few expensive suits hanging in my closet, or a little jewelry? It’s all insured, and and I’m not ashamed of having any of it in the least. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newspaper-posts-gun-owners-names-and-addresses/645124/69 "2012-12-26T18:30:39Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Right. So no law is being broken here. I think everybody agrees about that. > [@](#): > > Gun owners just don’t like it when their neighbors know who is a dangerous gun fetishist and who may not be. They published the names and addresses of handgun owners - not the owners of any other guns, or the amount of guns owned by any of these people. Please explain how you can use that information to determine who is a dangerous gun fetishist. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newspaper-posts-gun-owners-names-and-addresses/645124/70 "2012-12-26T18:31:20Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Which law, by the way, is being violated in revealing the names and addresses of gun owners? If a newspaper wants to publish the names and addresses of all Lexus owners, or all Victoria’s Secret customers, it can do so legally, as far as I know, and the only reason they don’t is that no one really cares. If enough readers care about gun owners, or if the paper’s publsher is the only one who does, the paper may (and IMO should) freely publish such information. Unless someone wants to cite a law stating that gun-ownership must be kept private? you need to stop treating “right/wrong” and “legal/illegal” as equivalents. They are not always the same. **ETA** > [@](#): > > Please explain how you can use that information to determine who is a dangerous gun fetishist. clearly in **pseudotriton ruber ruber** ’s mind, anyone who owns a gun is a “dangerous gun fetishist.” ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newspaper-posts-gun-owners-names-and-addresses/645124/71 "2012-12-26T18:33:03Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Right. So no law is being broken here. Gun owners just don’t like it when their neighbors know who is a dangerous gun fetishist and who may not be. I wouldn’t let my kids play in a house owned by a gun-owner, for example, and would tend not to want to befriend anyone who kept guns in the house. (I have a few friends who do, btw, but I found that out after we became friends and I got to understand their characters better.) If you’re not ashamed of yourself for owning guns, grow a pair and live up to your neighbors’ opinions of you for owning guns. A few things. 1. Most people do not have a negative opinion of gun owners, your feelings in this regard are not mainstream and certainly not representative of the opinions of my neighbors. 2. I wouldn’t care if my name was published in a list of gun owners, or my address. I think such large lists are unlikely to result in any specific action since the huge number of people on the list basically makes it like a phone book. I’ve not said there is any real danger in these lists, I’ve just said they come from an assholish disposition and are not polite behavior. 3. Your name being on the list of handgun owners is not proof that you’re a gun fetishist. In fact most gun owners would not fall under the definition. Since you’re obviously only interested in insulting gun owners and making straw man arguments (like your childish and ignorant argument that this isn’t illegal so it’s fine, when no one was asserting it was illegal and everyone knows lots of legal behavior is shitty) proves you’re not worth talking with on this issue any further. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newspaper-posts-gun-owners-names-and-addresses/645124/72 "2012-12-26T18:37:12Z")
Anyway, guys like **pseudotriton ruber ruber** that are against all gun ownership are an example of the type of fringe element that the gun nuts in the NRA get to put up to more moderate gun owners as an example of why you have to oppose all gun control. Basically, they are part of the problem. No country in Western Europe bans all guns, so any argument that America should ban all guns isn’t based on any objective reality. Guys like **YogSosoth** openly state that children of gun owners dying is something that makes him personally happy [link](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13774126&postcount=66) and [link](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13774540&postcount=99) (you need both together for context), so he’s not exactly a source of reasoned gun control debate either. You want to know who is? Someone like me, a life long gun owner who advocates licensing and storage requirements for firearms, but because I’m not advocating gun grabs or mass gun bans here on the SDMB I’d be considered part of the “fringe gun nut crowd.” ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newspaper-posts-gun-owners-names-and-addresses/645124/73 "2012-12-26T18:39:25Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Right. So no law is being broken here. Gun owners just don’t like it when their neighbors know who is a dangerous gun fetishist and who may not be. I wouldn’t let my kids play in a house owned by a gun-owner, for example, and would tend not to want to befriend anyone who kept guns in the house. (I have a few friends who do, btw, but I found that out after we became friends and I got to understand their characters better.) If you’re not ashamed of yourself for owning guns, grow a pair and live up to your neighbors’ opinions of you for owning guns. Not everyone who owns a gun is a dangerous fetishist. What about cops? Military personnel? People who hunt? People who collect military memorabilia, including old, rare or antique firearms? Why should any of these folks be ashamed of owning guns, all else being equal? I know people in each category, and none are even close to being what I’d call your typical “gun nut.” This being Michigan, _lots_ of people hunt. All responsible, productive and law-abiding with registered firearms. A doctor. Three people who own businesses. Two cops. A former marine who teaches gun-safety classes on the side. And come to think of it, pretty much all have kids. I have little respect for the NRA and typical “gun nuts.” But not everyone who owns one or more firearms falls into that category, not by a long shot. So to speak. (FTR, I have never owned a gun.) ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newspaper-posts-gun-owners-names-and-addresses/645124/74 "2012-12-26T18:43:55Z")
If one can believe the Gun Fans that having guns at home make you safer, it’s hard to follow the complaint that having it be known that you own a gun makes you less safe. On one hand they argue that the more people pack heat, the safer we are and on the other they argue that when criminals know they have weapons that they’d be drawn to their house like moths to a lamppost. Now wait a minute, I thought your arsenal deterred crime. As a Gun Hater I could not care less if it was known that I don’t have a gun. I have multiple phones with the keys 9 and 1 functional, so if in the exceedingly unlikely event that I heard a prowler, I could have the police at my house in five minutes. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newspaper-posts-gun-owners-names-and-addresses/645124/75 "2012-12-26T18:46:28Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Anyway, guys like **pseudotriton ruber ruber** that are against all gun ownership I am in favor of guns owned by peace officers, and by others who need guns to do their jobs, and by those willing to pass a rigorous background check (for dangerous mental illness and felonious convictions) and pass regular gun-safety tests. This, to **Martin Hyde** , translates into “against gun ownership.” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newspaper-posts-gun-owners-names-and-addresses/645124/76 "2012-12-26T18:50:01Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > This, to **Martin Hyde** , translates into “against gun ownership.” Maybe your remark about “gun fetishists” somehow gave him the wrong idea. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newspaper-posts-gun-owners-names-and-addresses/645124/77 "2012-12-26T18:52:44Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > As a Gun Hater I could not care less if it was known that I don’t have a gun. I have multiple phones with the keys 9 and 1 functional, so if in the exceedingly unlikely event that I heard a prowler, I could have the police at my house in five minutes. well, for your sake I hope you never have to discover just how _long_ five minutes is in an emergency situation. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newspaper-posts-gun-owners-names-and-addresses/645124/78 "2012-12-26T18:55:25Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I’ve met quite a few burglars in my day; none were newspaper readers. (of course, I only met the ones that got caught) > [@Morgenstern](#): > > If I were a burglar, I’d certainly find this information useful. If I were a burglar, I’d just get the [information](http://www.sunshinereview.org/index.php/New_York_Freedom_of_Information_Law#Who_may_request_records.3F)myself. (Also, since no one has brought it up and the NY FOIA rules call it out - Welcome to the First Amendment) ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newspaper-posts-gun-owners-names-and-addresses/645124/79 "2012-12-26T19:00:58Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > If one can believe the Gun Fans that having guns at home make you safer, it’s hard to follow the complaint that having it be known that you own a gun makes you less safe. On one hand they argue that the more people pack heat, the safer we are and on the other they argue that when criminals know they have weapons that they’d be drawn to their house like moths to a lamppost. Now wait a minute, I thought your arsenal deterred crime. > > As a Gun Hater I could not care less if it was known that I don’t have a gun. I have multiple phones with the keys 9 and 1 functional, so if in the exceedingly unlikely event that I heard a prowler, I could have the police at my house in five minutes. What if someone owns a handgun and **doesn’t** think it makes you safer, but just owns it for some other reason? :dubious: Does it make sense for that person to have their gun ownership publicized? My guns don’t make me particularly safe. Every gun I own is heavily locked. So if someone started breaking into my house I’d have to yell, “hold on!!! It’ll be a few minutes for me to get my guns out of my safe in the basement and get them loaded, just hold on!!” It’s unlikely I’m the only handgun owner in the country who actually keeps them locked away until I plan on using them. Anyone in that category quite simply **couldn’t** believe that their handgun makes them safer. A gun can only be used for self defense if it is immediately accessible. Twice in my life, both times when I was younger and living in rough neighborhoods, someone broke into my residence at night while I was there. One time it was a very drunk person who was confused and thought he was trying to get into his own house and was confused as to why his key didn’t work. I yelled at him and when it became obvious he was no danger I sat him down on the steps leading toward my place and called a friend of his whose number he gave me to come and pick him up. The other time I was in living in a shitty house in a low income area and it was a house where the front of the house had several large windows that opened out onto the front porch, and my bedroom was on the other side of one of the windows. So I wake up when I hear someone moving stuff around on the porch and I reach under my bed for basically an improvised club (I think it was literally a piece of a chair with a grip made of duct tape) I kept down there and ran out the front door screaming at the guy with the club in my hand. The moment he saw me he jumped off the porch and ran into the neighbor’s yard a lot faster than I could and was lost in the night. So I have an understanding of how quickly “home security incidents” can develop. In both cases the only scenario where a gun would have made me safer would be if I had a loaded gun laying beside me, and I’m not willing to do that in my house, so in both instances a gun would not have helped me personally. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newspaper-posts-gun-owners-names-and-addresses/645124/80 "2012-12-26T19:01:24Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > If I were a burglar, I’d just get the [information](http://www.sunshinereview.org/index.php/New_York_Freedom_of_Information_Law#Who_may_request_records.3F)myself. It’d be hilarious if a burglar were arrested because he used FOIL requests as a way of casing houses. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newspaper-posts-gun-owners-names-and-addresses/645124.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newspaper-posts-gun-owners-names-and-addresses/645124.md?page=5)