# Newsweek takes on the real issues: Angelina Jolie's kid's hair. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 13, 2009, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newsweek-takes-on-the-real-issues-angelina-jolies-kids-hair/513713 "2009-10-13T22:49:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newsweek-takes-on-the-real-issues-angelina-jolies-kids-hair/513713/121 "2010-07-29T06:19:59Z")
> [@pbbth](#): > > So Angelina’s girls are given crap because one of them doesn’t straighten their hair and the other wants it cut short like a boy’s would be but I see at least one little kid with a mullet or rat tail or other hair disaster every day and no one says anything to those parents? I missed this thread the first time around. So they’ve picked on Zahara and now Shiloh, when will they find something to criticize about little Vivienne? She’s got to be about 2 now and probably making bad fashion choices, too. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newsweek-takes-on-the-real-issues-angelina-jolies-kids-hair/513713/122 "2010-07-29T07:23:38Z")
> [@astro](#): > > I think white dopers are being much too snide and insensitively dismissive of the social complexities and interpersonal significance of hair care for black women as it relates to their children, especially their daughters. > > When you invest a huge amount of time, money and devotion to making sure something is done “right” for your kids, you are naturally going to take umbrage at seeing someone blissfully ignore all the rigor and expectations of that tradition. The “Buckwheat” look might be no big deal to whites, but a black woman with a child who looked like this would be judged an incompetent mother at best, and possibly guilty of borderline child abuse at worst by other black parents > > The right and wrong of the 4 year olds hairstyle is sort of beside the point. Seeing a little 4 year old black girl with unkempt hair rankles a very deep nerve in black women and brings out the hair care fundamentalist in them. > > In the end this dismissive attitude by white dopers is mostly about white female privilege. Black women have never had the social and cultural luxury of having gleefully sloppy, unkempt young children without being judged very harshly for it on every level conceivable by white (and black) society. > > Before ranting about black hair care fundies, white dopers should take a moment and try to understand where the deep feelings of black women are coming from on this issue. Not everyone gets to live in the world of white privilege where children can be “natural” and run free through safe spaces and manicured neighborhoods. For those on the outside of that window looking in, who have to make sure their children meet appearance standards or be subject to vile epithets and assumptions, to mock them for being concerned about appearances is a pretty nasty and ignorant thing to do. And whilst I understand this view (thank you, BTW), that article merely serves to reinforce this attitude of judging mothers harshly. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newsweek-takes-on-the-real-issues-angelina-jolies-kids-hair/513713/123 "2010-07-29T09:23:28Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > Girls with straight hair hate their hair and constantly perm it. Girls who are blonde dye their hair more blonde, or darken it, dark-haired girls get highlights or go all the way blonde. There’s these two blonde sisters at work. I had to explain to the guys that those dark streaks they found strange are either an incredibly _good_ dye job, or natural; they’re so used to seeing dyed blondes that they don’t recognize what a natural blonde looks like ☹ > [@](#): > > This is not a sarcastic question, do that many black women REALLY think they have to conform to some notion of “whiteness” when it comes to their hair? If so, articles like the one in the OP are NOT helping. sheesh. I do think you sort of answered yourself. Many women _of every color_ think that their natural hair is not socially acceptable, same as they think that their natural body shape is not socially acceptable. In the US, the pressure to conform is enormous, and greater when you’re part of a minority: I’ve worked in places where when I wore a vaguely Mexican skirt nobody remarked on it, but when a mestiza did she got jokes; the jokesters were unthinking and insensitive, did not mean to be hostile, but it still sent a message of “you’re being _too_ different.” ---
**Author:** ![Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8c91f0/32.png) [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bam_Boo_Gut)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newsweek-takes-on-the-real-issues-angelina-jolies-kids-hair/513713/124 "2010-07-29T14:06:36Z")
> [@astro](#): > > The “Buckwheat” look might be no big deal to whites, but a black woman with a child who looked like this would be judged an incompetent mother at best, and possibly guilty of borderline child abuse at worst by other black parents I’m white and my kids father is black, Bookid has very thick, hard hair and lots of it. I would plait down my kids hair on her head every Sunday - she wanted it done, but she’d cry her way through the whole thing. Her scalp was very sensitive. As the week rolled on it got more and more puffy. If it wasn’t so painful for her I would have replaited it every two or three days. The teachers - black - asked me about it, since unkempt hair is a sign of neglect to them so they were confused as the kid was dressed cleanly and didn’t seem to have other problems. When I explained we could only manage the ordeal once a week they were happy with the sensitive head thing, but they did need to check. Well, she’s got dreadlocks down to her arse now she’s an adult, treats herself to a salon wash and dry every few months or so, it’s the least maintenance style for her hair. I never thought I’d say this, but I wish she’d cut them, they’re too bloody heavy - it can’t be good for her neck! ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newsweek-takes-on-the-real-issues-angelina-jolies-kids-hair/513713/125 "2010-07-29T14:19:33Z")
I still think it’s something to do with them being a celebrity, liked at least partly because you’re beautiful, and people want something to have over them to make them feel better. I’ve seen too many kids of all colors who have unkempt or boyish hair that are otherwise well kept–and nobody says anything about it. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newsweek-takes-on-the-real-issues-angelina-jolies-kids-hair/513713/126 "2010-07-29T16:57:16Z")
Personally, I cry a little bit inside every time I see a Black woman with ugly straightened hair.\* I would \*kill \*to have their natural texture (an Afro would be awesome, or a tight cap of curls, or Nubian locks). \*Not all straightened hair is ugly. But I see a lot of really badly done (IMO) jobs that look like Lego hair. I’d say I see a slightly larger proportion of Black women with attractive straightened hair than I see white men and women with attractive dreadlocks. > [@Biggirl](#): > > Hi, **Shot** what’s happening? I have to pee, but I’m waiting for a vendor to show up. ☹ > [@CanvasShoes](#): > > This is not a sarcastic question, do that many black women REALLY think they have to conform to some notion of “whiteness” when it comes to their hair? If so, articles like the one in the OP are NOT helping. sheesh. I don’t think the article was saying that the kid had to have a white hairstyle–just that her hair needed more care than it was (apparently) getting. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f07891/32.png) [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Plastic_Ninja)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newsweek-takes-on-the-real-issues-angelina-jolies-kids-hair/513713/127 "2010-07-30T05:50:52Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > I have to pee, but I’m waiting for a vendor to show up. ☹ [unable to resist] So you can pee on him? [/uar] ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newsweek-takes-on-the-real-issues-angelina-jolies-kids-hair/513713/128 "2010-07-30T06:07:42Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > > [@CanvasShoes](#): > > > > Girls with straight hair hate their hair and constantly perm it. Girls who are blonde dye their hair more blonde, or darken it, dark-haired girls get highlights or go all the way blonde. > > There’s these two blonde sisters at work. I had to explain to the guys that those dark streaks they found strange are either an incredibly _good_ dye job, or natural; they’re so used to seeing dyed blondes that they don’t recognize what a natural blonde looks like ☹ Yup, a “true” blonde has all sorts of different shades. > [@Nava](#): > > > [@CanvasShoes](#): > > > > This is not a sarcastic question, do that many black women REALLY think they have to conform to some notion of “whiteness” when it comes to their hair? If so, articles like the one in the OP are NOT helping. sheesh. > > I do think you sort of answered yourself. Many women _of every color_ think that their natural hair is not socially acceptable, same as they think that their natural body shape is not socially acceptable. In the US, the pressure to conform is enormous, and greater when you’re part of a minority: I’ve worked in places where when I wore a vaguely Mexican skirt nobody remarked on it, but when a mestiza did she got jokes; the jokesters were unthinking and insensitive, did not mean to be hostile, but it still sent a message of “you’re being _too_ different.” Well kind of. I realize that I did mention that women of all races hate their hair. Women of all races hate all sorts of stuff about ourselves, we constantly hold ourselves up to standards such as Hollywood, Milan and Playboy and are unsurprisingly found wanting against those airbrushed standards. But what I heard these girls on the Tyra show express, I mean this was WAAAAAAY beyond the normal “I hate my hair”. I am not kidding, I’m 51 and that is the first time I had any notion at all that there was such a cultural standard within the black community about girls’ hair. Now, part of that may be how far north I’ve spent the majority of my life (born in Auburn, basically a suburb of Seattle, and 40 years in Alaska), I don’t know. But I was both surprised and felt horrible for them. And also sad that so many black women actually believe that white people view their hair as somehow substandard. Growing up, I’ve never heard such a viewpoint from anyone I know. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newsweek-takes-on-the-real-issues-angelina-jolies-kids-hair/513713/129 "2010-07-30T06:17:24Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > > [@CanvasShoes](#): > > > > This is not a sarcastic question, do that many black women REALLY think they have to conform to some notion of “whiteness” when it comes to their hair? If so, articles like the one in the OP are NOT helping. sheesh. > > I don’t think the article was saying that the kid had to have a white hairstyle–just that her hair needed more care than it was (apparently) getting. Oh yeah, I know, but the article kept pushing again and again the attitude of (paraphrased) “JEeez! White people already judge us so much and we try so hard to fit in, how COULD you not at least do your part”? My point is, no we (normal ones) really don’t. We don’t look at a “natural do” and think horrible "Oh! My GAWD, he/she is SOOOO black (cue Sir Mix a Lot :D) thoughts about their hair. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newsweek-takes-on-the-real-issues-angelina-jolies-kids-hair/513713/130 "2010-07-30T13:15:46Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Personally, I cry a little bit inside every time I see a Black woman with ugly straightened hair.\* I would \*kill \*to have their natural texture (an Afro would be awesome, or a tight cap of curls, or Nubian locks). Y’know, I personally agree (I was always super jealous of my black girl classmates who had the cool puff-ball pigtails all over with really cute barrettes. I wanted that style so bad!), but I, as a white woman, have the luxury of wanting their natural hair texture, but still having the socially-acceptable honky hair. For every one white person who loves natural black hair texture, there are multiple white people who think it looks “ghetto”, “poor”, “nasty ass”, “unkempt”, etc. Go back 50 years and I think you’d find it hard to get one white person who would really appreciate black hair texture. For decades (centuries), black hair was seen as Bad. White hair is good. Most of the black female celebrities that can be used as an example of “hotness” have strong white beauty characteristics, still. Compare [Halle Berry](http://www.devendo1981musicmovies.com/halle-berry.jpg) to model [Alek Wek](http://nymag.com/images/2/daily/showandtalk/07/09/05_wek_lgl.jpg). Many people will say that Halle is beautiful but then say, “omg, why the hell is Alek a model? She is NOT pretty at all!”. Just because the attitude towards “ethnic”\* hair is _starting_ to change in the mainstream doesn’t mean that it’s the majority view yet. And even if it suddenly _was_, you can’t expect centuries of pressure to “look white (because only white people are considered beautiful in society)” to just vanish overnight. - I love how black hair care products are called “ethnic hair care”. Can’t just say what type of hair it’s for (or specify _which_ ethnicity), can you? ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newsweek-takes-on-the-real-issues-angelina-jolies-kids-hair/513713/131 "2010-08-02T16:50:05Z")
> [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](#): > > > [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > > > I have to pee, but I’m waiting for a vendor to show up. ☹ > > So you can pee on him? Honestly, I should have. :mad: > [@zweisamkeit](#): > > For every one white person who loves natural black hair texture, there are multiple white people who think it looks “ghetto”, “poor”, “nasty ass”, “unkempt”, etc. [snip] Just because the attitude towards “ethnic”\* hair is _starting_ to change in the mainstream doesn’t mean that it’s the majority view yet. Yeah, but those people are _deeply stupid_. I mean, in an objective way, I get why some Black women feel like they have to straighten their hair… but that doesn’t mean I like it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newsweek-takes-on-the-real-issues-angelina-jolies-kids-hair/513713.md?page=6)