# Newtown School Massacre Happened Because The School Was Too Damn Feminine **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 20, 2012, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newtown-school-massacre-happened-because-the-school-was-too-damn-feminine/644600 "2012-12-20T03:48:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newtown-school-massacre-happened-because-the-school-was-too-damn-feminine/644600/41 "2012-12-20T16:39:36Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > It’s clear that “being a conservative” in the context of the OP means identifying with the current conservative movement (which the OP does not for reasons already given) and not on notions of where he lies on a theoretical classical liberal/conservative spectrum. What does that have to do with anything? There are actual and current divides on many issues between conservatives and liberals. Taxes, spending, abortion, social programs etc. etc. If Jas09 has his own opinion on these issues and they fall closer to one side than the other, than that would be the side he should be on. It has nothing to do with whether that side or the other side has a tendency to ignore facts and historical context etc. Let him do his own analysis, including facts and historical context, and decide. Unless his point is that all conservative positions are currently based on ignorance of facts etc.? But if that’s his position, how could he be proving that from one article about something that’s not even one of the major conservative liberal dividing issues? ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newtown-school-massacre-happened-because-the-school-was-too-damn-feminine/644600/42 "2012-12-20T16:59:20Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > [I believe you may have left out something (after the right paren?)]. Yeah, that sentence came out a mess - I blame the wine. Probably should have just left it out altogether, although then we would have missed out on **MWaG** ’s contributions. > [@](#): > > You should be a conservative or liberal based on whether you believe in conservative or liberal principles. Which group contains a larger number of people who disregard facts and historical context etc. shouldn’t be part of the equation. > > Unless you’re not thinking things through on your own, and just adopt the beliefs of whichever team you judge to have the Smarter People. I understand what you’re saying, but don’t think I agree (or at least not fully). First, “conservative” and “liberal” are not static terms, nor all-encompassing. One can (and almost always does) adopt opinions and beliefs from both camps, and even see beliefs that they have always held move from one to the other. Second, I believe the quality of the argument matters intensely. No matter the topic, making sure you have the facts right and considering historical context is essential. And, currently at least, I see much more of this from people promoting “liberal” policies (which, in many cases aren’t even really that liberal in a historical sense). You seem to think that the best way to get to policy solutions is to start with ideological principles and then apply them. I don’t think this is right. I think we should always keep in mind our ideological principles, but start from the facts and historical realities to build our policies. This is perhaps closer to the core of my complaint - too many conservatives today seem so bound to their ideology that they refuse to acknowledge factual and historical realities. This article has that in spades. And yes, part of it surely comes down to “tribe identification”. I’d rather have Andrew Sullivan and David Frum on “my team” (even though they are both pretty much disavowed as “conservatives” these days) than K-Lo or Charlotte Allen (to choose two that post at one of the “smarter” conservatives outlets). ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newtown-school-massacre-happened-because-the-school-was-too-damn-feminine/644600/43 "2012-12-20T17:04:41Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Unless his point is that all conservative positions are currently based on ignorance of facts etc.? But if that’s his position, how could he be proving that from one article about something that’s not even one of the major conservative liberal dividing issues? Meh, I was just pitting a really really dumb-ass, offensive, article. I threw in the (mangled) line about the decline of conservative thought as a (slightly drunken) afterthought. We can discuss that at length if you’d like, but I’d kind of rather focus on what a piece of moldering tripe this article is. How about this piece of sage advice: > [@](#): > > Cops and everybody else encourage civilians not to try to defend themselves when they are criminally assaulted. This is stupid advice. There are things you can do. Run is one of them, because most shooters can’t hit a moving target. The other, if you are in a confined space, is throw things at the killer, or try a tackle. Fuck cops (and everybody else) - what do they know? Those teachers that actually did try to confront (and possibly tackle) the shooter and got shot dead for it - let’s just ignore them, they’re just women anyways. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newtown-school-massacre-happened-because-the-school-was-too-damn-feminine/644600/44 "2012-12-20T17:07:59Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > You seem to think that the best way to get to policy solutions is to start with ideological principles and then apply them. I don’t think this is right. I think we should always keep in mind our ideological principles, but start from the facts and historical realities to build our policies. This is perhaps closer to the core of my complaint - too many conservatives today seem so bound to their ideology that they refuse to acknowledge factual and historical realities. This article has that in spades. I’m not making a distinction here between ideology and facts here. Obviously any ideology has to be based on facts and reason. So when I refer to your own ideology, I mean your own fact-based ideology. So for example, if you believe, based your own asessment of the current situation, that what’s needed at this time is lower taxes and lower spending, for example. What difference does it make to you if other people have reached that same conclusion based on disregard for facts and historical context? > [@Jas09](#): > > We can discuss that at length if you’d like, but I’d kind of rather focus on what a piece of moldering tripe this article is. Not much to talk about there. Yes, it’s moldering tripe. Now what? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newtown-school-massacre-happened-because-the-school-was-too-damn-feminine/644600/45 "2012-12-20T17:11:50Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > Fuck you. The mods can ban me. [Moderating] Mostly, we just give mod notes for this kind of thing. Which is what this is. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newtown-school-massacre-happened-because-the-school-was-too-damn-feminine/644600/46 "2012-12-20T17:54:04Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Regarding Charlotte Allen’s comments – the grammar school I attended was a parochial school, run by nuns. The lay teachers were also female, and so was the janitor. I kinda thought such Catholic schools were the sort NR supported. Are they turning on their own? But any Masses would be delivered by a male priest. Maybe that’s man enough for the NR. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newtown-school-massacre-happened-because-the-school-was-too-damn-feminine/644600/47 "2012-12-20T17:58:11Z")
Never see **A Monkey With a Gun** and Charlotte Allen in the same place, do you? ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newtown-school-massacre-happened-because-the-school-was-too-damn-feminine/644600/48 "2012-12-20T18:24:24Z")
Am I the only one who thought **A Monkey With a Gun** ’s posts read like he was drunk? Also, I must agree about the stupidity and offensiveness of the article. I went and read the other article linked here too. This woman is clearly off her rocker. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newtown-school-massacre-happened-because-the-school-was-too-damn-feminine/644600/49 "2012-12-20T18:32:49Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > I take a slight bit of umbridge. [Dolores Umbridge]I mustn’t tell lies![/Dolores Umbridge] ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newtown-school-massacre-happened-because-the-school-was-too-damn-feminine/644600/50 "2012-12-20T18:59:12Z")
I got my doctorate at Umbridge. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newtown-school-massacre-happened-because-the-school-was-too-damn-feminine/644600/51 "2012-12-20T20:22:39Z")
I don’t think this is the first time that **Monkey** has approached meltdown levels in the Pit. Just saying. Anyway, I looked up several articles of Charlotte Allen’s and she truly is batshit insane. So really, not much else to know. We should probably all just move along… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newtown-school-massacre-happened-because-the-school-was-too-damn-feminine/644600/52 "2012-12-20T20:40:44Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > You should be a conservative or liberal based on whether you believe in conservative or liberal principles. Which group contains a larger number of people who disregard facts and historical context etc. shouldn’t be part of the equation. Nonsense. By their fruits shall ye know them. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newtown-school-massacre-happened-because-the-school-was-too-damn-feminine/644600/53 "2012-12-20T21:58:25Z")
I read the article and I have to say I do somewhat agree with the part written by Heather MacDonald. The rest is total crap. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newtown-school-massacre-happened-because-the-school-was-too-damn-feminine/644600/54 "2012-12-20T23:23:11Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > Am I the only one who thought **A Monkey With a Gun** ’s posts read like he was drunk? Ha! I was very, very lit when I wrote all that. And no, **faithfool** , I am not having a meltdown. Just… meh. life. It was either punching the wall or taking it out on the BBQ pit. I would much rather be a dick on a message board than in real life. I think that’s actually kinda healthy. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newtown-school-massacre-happened-because-the-school-was-too-damn-feminine/644600/55 "2012-12-21T02:39:18Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Regarding Charlotte Allen’s comments – the grammar school I attended was a parochial school, run by nuns. The lay teachers were also female, and so was the janitor. I kinda thought such Catholic schools were the sort NR supported. Are they turning on their own? > As for the fighting prowess of nuns, their skills with rulers and yardsticks are legendary. And oyur janitor was built like a refrigerator, and cleaned with muriatic acid. At least there were no nurturing secular feminists around. These were God’s people, by which I mean authoritarian hardasses. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newtown-school-massacre-happened-because-the-school-was-too-damn-feminine/644600/56 "2012-12-21T03:48:14Z")
We need to establish and begin training an order of Bene Gesserit, obviously. ---
**Author:** ![Docta\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Docta\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Docta_G)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newtown-school-massacre-happened-because-the-school-was-too-damn-feminine/644600/57 "2012-12-21T03:52:32Z")
> [@waterj2](#): > > Well, that’s a pretty stupid hill to chose to die on. They’re all stupid hills. Just let him have his martyrdom-wish. ---
**Author:** ![Docta\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Docta\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Docta_G)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newtown-school-massacre-happened-because-the-school-was-too-damn-feminine/644600/58 "2012-12-21T03:53:32Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > Ha! I was very, very lit when I wrote all that. > > And no, **faithfool** , I am not having a meltdown. Just… meh. life. It was either punching the wall or taking it out on the BBQ pit. I would much rather be a dick on a message board than in real life. I think that’s actually kinda healthy. I have a feeling you’re both. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newtown-school-massacre-happened-because-the-school-was-too-damn-feminine/644600/59 "2012-12-21T04:58:29Z")
Is that your medical opinion, **Docta**? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newtown-school-massacre-happened-because-the-school-was-too-damn-feminine/644600/60 "2012-12-22T20:03:06Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > The references to the Columbine and Aurora massacres were specifically addressing the columnist’s moronic “point” about needing to have more men around to take down the baddies. > > What the OP is saying, AFAICT, is basically “Look, you vapid bitch, given that the presence of lots of adult males in places like Columbine and Aurora (not to mention the THOUSANDS of fighting-fit male SOLDIERS in the area during the Fort Hood massacre) didn’t significantly deter or check mass murderers, why are you suggesting it would have helped in this case?” Allen was also wrong that Sandy Hook Elementary didn’t have any male teachers or custodians. And she was wrong about the age of the children. The school is K-4, not K-6, so there wouldn’t have been any 12-year-olds, husky or otherwise. The idea of some large, heroic 12-year-olds saving the day by throwing themselves at the gun with the high-powered rifle - that _that_ would have fixed everything - places the whole thing firmly in the “I don’t know whether to laugh or cry” category. But not only is the core idea of the column patronizing, callous, and stupid, the author got a bunch of basic facts wrong and it outs her as being very lazy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newtown-school-massacre-happened-because-the-school-was-too-damn-feminine/644600.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newtown-school-massacre-happened-because-the-school-was-too-damn-feminine/644600.md?page=4)