What the fuck are you even saying? Do you think expropriating white owned land is “unpopular”? In what way are citizens going to get what they “deserve” when the government redistribute the land? Oh, and not everyone is going to be happy? Genius fucking insight there. Thanks!
Stalker!
Do you not think that there just may be a different situation in post-apartheid South Africa and that “scapegoating” is an utterly moronic description of the situation? Just maybe?
But that’s the thing about the Dope. We demand a better class of argument. You make the claim, you prove it. Find some evidence. Even in the Pit. The posts linked upthread are not evidence. Being pessimistic about the future of South Africa does not make me a racist; it means I’m pessimistic about the future of South Africa.
It’s a possibility. As is a Boltzmann Brain.
Oh? I thought you were “sanguine”. Or, do you not understand what that word means?
Stranger
That doesn’t answer the question posed. Any reason why its more likely to happen in SA, then say, America, Armenia or Australia?
Mugabe headed a brutal regime from the beginning save for a brief honeymoon in the beginning, but it was clear he was a monster by the time of the Gukurahundi massacre on 1983, resulting in the killing of approximately 20 000 -24 000 Ndebele.
He oversaw numerous human rights abuses from the Chikurubi prison massacre, Operation Murmabatsvina to intimidation, torture and killing of opposition party members, supporters and journalists, the overwhelming majority of whom are black. Starving due to the collapse of the economy? You want a food parcel, best show your ZanuPF membership card. And if you don’t have one you’d be branded an opposition supporter. I think you can make a reasoned guess as to the treatment of LGBTI people/ Again, almost all black.
If you are correct and are asserting that the unlawful eviction of white farmers by government sanctioned mobs, received less coverage than the above, I’m not sure what the problem is.
If most of the aforementioned is unfamiliar to you (with the exception of the Gukirahundi and Chikirubi massacres, all of the above occurred post 2000) you may wish to question why your preferred media sources chose to focus on invasion of white farms rather than the other, more widespread and in some cases, more egregious abuses committed against blacks.
I’m not saying anything that can be factually proven or disproven. It’s just how I feel based on multiple posts of yours (focusing on fears about white people at the hands of scary black people), and I’m telling you in the hope that you might consider it and take it onboard and try to be a better person.
You’re free to ignore it, of course. It’s just a feeling. I could be wrong. It’s intended to be an opportunity, not an attack.
It was more than the land seizure that destroyed Zimbabwe. Here is an early article on it (written before the hyperinflation set in.)
Try looking it up in a dictionary. I’m not using it in its ‘optimistic’ sense.
I’m rather confident “I’m smarter than you” is not your best line of attack here.
Let me get this straight, you wander into a thread where you admittedly don’t know shit about the situation, accuse others of being racists and then have the balls to state that *they * need to be better people? Grow the fuck up and get over yourself.
You realize that the guy who introduced this amendment and the leader of the EFF, Julius Malema, Julius Malema, has been known to say such lovely things like:
and
Link.
Oh, and this guy was already sentenced to prison for hate speech against whites.
This issue has been going on since the ANC took over back in 1994. The ANC plans for restitution has been a total failure. Well, actually a 90% failure. See, 90% of the people who have land claims take cash instead of the land. Of the land that is claimed, something like 70% is uncultivated.
Granted, straightening out the land issue is hard. However, after 20 fucking years, the government really hasn’t made any progress. And expropriating the land probably isn’t going to solve the problem either, given the numbers I quoted above. If 70% of the expropriated land ends up uncultivated, South Africa is fucked.
Given the leader of the EFFs incendiary quotes about whites, the failure of the ANC to deal with the situation and the likelihood of the seizures leading to some really fucking bad outcomes, thinking that white people might want to move isn’t terribly racist. Who do you think Julius Malema will blame when things go to shit?
Apartheid was an absolutely inhumane and horrid policy. Trying to right those wrongs is a good thing to do. However, this isn’t the way to do it. It will fail, badly.
Slee
Huh? Who are you talking to? Who did I accuse of being racist? Do you believe that any unconscious bias counts as racism? If so, then I disagree with you. I think most folks probably have unconscious biases, and having unconscious bias doesn’t necessarily make someone racist.
I know this is a tough subject, but I’m just doing my best and trying to help folks. Hopefully others will do the same if they think I’m demonstrating any biases. No big deal to just talk about this kind of thing. I know lots of folks take it personally and get very defensive, but this is unnecessary.
As for the topic of South African government policy, I look forward to any contributions from our South African posters.
I don’t see that as racist, given that much of the dynamics of politics in South Africa involve race. You have a country recovering from generations of white power apartheid. You don’t just get over that, and since the ethnic majority that was once subjugated by that authority now has the political power to exact retribution, it’s fair to speculate about the ramifications of a race-based law such as this one. A country with racist history is always going to struggle with race, and sometimes, the victims today might be the progeny of the perpetrators of yesteryear’s racism. There’s nothing racist about discussing that, or making comments to that effect.
Yeah I don’t really understand what’s so objectionable about the way the OP is phrased. Granted, I don’t know his history or if he’s said racist things in the past, but just the part of an “exit route” seems to make sense just from a logical, factual perspective. Demographics shift, and policies in any country that are directed towards a specific group results in migration from that group. What exactly is the error here?
Okay, here is the Merriam-Webster definition of the term. Do you mean
[ol]
[li] bloodred [/li][li][LIST=a][/li][li] consisting of or relating to blood [/li][li] bloodthirsty, sanguinary [/li][li] of the complexion : ruddy[/li][/ol]
[li] having blood as the predominating bodily humor; also : having the bodily conformation and temperament held characteristic of such predominance and marked by sturdiness, high color, and cheerfulness [*] confident, optimistic[/li][/LIST]
Or did you just misapply the term and are now unwilling to acknowledge that you made an error?
As for the issue of land seizure, it is clearly a contentious and potentially catastrophic policy that will impact all residents of South Africa. The o.p. chose to frame this in terms of his purported concern for the less than 10% of “white South Africans” (again, his exact wording) which is what has introduced the issue of racism in this discussion. But perhaps this is just another aspect of his not being very good in understanding English vocabulary, it presumably not being his first language.
Stranger
That’s a weird train of thought. If the land seizures are targeted at the white population and impacts them in the most direct way then why on earth would the OP not focus on the white population?
Count me in as another who doesn’t read the OP as particularly racists or troublesome. Given the widespread corruption, poverty and conflict in Africa I would rather that South Africa succeeded and not to go the way of Zimbabwe but policies like these are more likely to harm than help. For one thing it sets the tone for land discussions. A disgruntled population can read this a justification for taking land themselves without due process, that can’t be good.
Try 2a with a hint of 2b. I do not see the Boers (in particular) taking this lying down. There will be blood spilled. I’m not eager for it, just resigned to it.
…and Scotland after that, I suppose. Land seizures for everyone! :rolleyes:
Do you not get tired of starting the same idiotic thread over and over, you tedious fuck?
Ooh, I’m sure people are just terrified of a Boer uprising. Shaking in their boots. Why, the last time the dreadful Boer paramilitaries struck, they were such a terror.
This isn’t Victorian times anymore, the Boers have no more military might than the Bundy militia. And they know it. Instead, they’ll just tuck tail and go be secondary colonizersin some other African country. Or join the chicken run to Oz.