# Next up: Immigration reform (one more time) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 22, 2010, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-immigration-reform-one-more-time/533353 "2010-03-22T16:29:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-immigration-reform-one-more-time/533353/61 "2010-03-22T23:23:09Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > This isn’t called-for, **magellan01**. Dial it back. How about you look and see what transpired? In Post 15 I used the phrase “Time to wake the fuck up” as part os a general rant, directed to no one. Eve took the quote and used in responding to me specifically. I thought her tone was uncalled for (directed at me) and sent it right back to her. And then you tell ME to dial it back? Fine. Now tell HER to dial it back. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-immigration-reform-one-more-time/533353/62 "2010-03-22T23:25:58Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > Knock off the swearing, would ya? And my name isn’t “toots,” as you well know. And the truth remains that having a baby in the U.S. isn’t a one-way ticket to citizenship, as you well know. So knock off the lies of omission; all they do is obfuscate the debate. > > If you debate respectfully, then so will I. Look, toots. You directed your “time to wake the fuck up to me”. THAT is what was uncalled for. The first exchange you and I had in this thread is you being rude to me. So, you may want to reread you Miss Manners book before getting on your high horse. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-immigration-reform-one-more-time/533353/63 "2010-03-22T23:29:18Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :dubious: You don’t really believe that. No matter what Congress does this year, not one person now in the U.S. illegally is going to get citizenship and voting rights by November, or even by 2012. Relatively few legal green-card residents will – the naturalization process is horribly backlogged. My point does not go to this election cycle only. It’ is and has been part of the Dems strategy. Just as keeping the Tysons of the world supplied with cheap labor (and campaign coffers full) has been and is part of the Reps. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-immigration-reform-one-more-time/533353/64 "2010-03-22T23:30:55Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > My point does not go to this election cycle only. It’ is and has been part of the Dems strategy. What do you base that on? ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-immigration-reform-one-more-time/533353/65 "2010-03-22T23:32:31Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Look, toots. You directed your “time to wake the fuck up to me”. THAT is what was uncalled for. The first exchange you and I had in this thread is you being rude to me. So, you may want to reread you Miss Manners book before getting on your high horse. Um, if you noticed, the swearing was a direct quote from **your** post, which was addressed to those who believe that those born in the U.S. are (and should be) U.S. citizens, which is a part of the U.S. Constitution that I hold near and dear. In my 7,000+ posts on this board, the occasions on which I have sworn unprompted can probably be counted on one hand. Until you can address me respectfully, I don’t see the point in engaging with you at all. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-immigration-reform-one-more-time/533353/66 "2010-03-22T23:34:00Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😕 What do you mean by the bolded part? Haven’t seen anyone suggest that before. I mean give people that are here legally and causing no one harm time to get their affairs in order and move out. Give them, say, until May 1, 2011. If we catch you here after that, for any reason and through any means, you are banned from ever becoming a citizen or getting a green card. Fell free to move the date and play with the timeline. Maybe “never” becomes 15 years, etc. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-immigration-reform-one-more-time/533353/67 "2010-03-22T23:38:59Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > Um, if you noticed, the swearing was a direct quote from **your** post. In my 7,000+ posts on this board, the occasions on which I have sworn unprompted can probably be counted on one hand. > > Until you can address me respectfully, I don’t see the point in engaging with you at all. Then don’t. Simple. _My swearing was not directed at you, or anyone_, it was just a part of a rant and was within the rules of this forum. YOU then took the quote and directed it me. I simply returned the crassness. So, the way I see it, you owe me one, possibly two apologies. One for directed that kine at me and the other, if you’re the one who reported it, for doing that. But I am a forgiving fellow. And will likely accept your apology and forget about it. Then it will be only **Marley23** who owes me an apology. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-immigration-reform-one-more-time/533353/68 "2010-03-22T23:41:40Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > As it stands currently, whether or not the law is written this way or not, if an illegal alien gets deported there is no way in hell is granted a work or other visa. I’m talking about people who are here now illegally. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-immigration-reform-one-more-time/533353/69 "2010-03-22T23:44:22Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Then don’t. Simple. _My swearing was not directed at you, or anyone_, it was just a part of a rant and was within the rules of this forum. YOU then took the quote and directed it me. I simply returned the crassness. So, the way I see it, you owe me one, possibly two apologies. One for directed that kine at me and the other, if you’re the one who reported it, for doing that. But I am a forgiving fellow. And will likely accept your apology and forget about it. Then it will be only **Marley23** who owes me an apology. For the record, I didn’t report your post - I have a thicker skin than that (though if you stand by your posts, I don’t know why you would care that someone brought one of them to the mods’ attention). But you’re going to be waiting a mighty long time if you are holding out for an apology for me, when I merely quoted your own words back at you. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-immigration-reform-one-more-time/533353/70 "2010-03-22T23:44:53Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What do you base that on? Oh come on. Do you really not think that the fact that immigrants might vote for the party that is perceived as being more welcoming to them? And that the Dems don’t realize this? It’s a plain as the Reps doing it to keep large companies in some industries flush with cheap labor, which of course, they will show their thanks for through campaign contributions. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-immigration-reform-one-more-time/533353/71 "2010-03-22T23:46:08Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Then don’t. Simple. _My swearing was not directed at you, or anyone_, it was just a part of a rant and was within the rules of this forum. YOU then took the quote and directed it me. I simply returned the crassness. So, the way I see it, you owe me one, possibly two apologies. One for directed that kine at me and the other, if you’re the one who reported it, for doing that. But I am a forgiving fellow. And will likely accept your apology and forget about it. Then it will be only **Marley23** who owes me an apology. Ok, I noticed that, and I read her reply again, she is directing that insult to the idea, using your colorful language only to call attention to that silliness, I do agree that not turning it down a notch does not help your position. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-immigration-reform-one-more-time/533353/72 "2010-03-22T23:49:19Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Oh come on. Do you really not think that the fact that immigrants might vote for the party that is perceived as being more welcoming to them? And that the Dems don’t realize this? It’s a plain as the Reps doing it to keep large companies in some industries flush with cheap labor, which of course, they will show their thanks for through campaign contributions. Sometimes doing the right thing also takes using the sausage manufacturing facilities of US law. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-immigration-reform-one-more-time/533353/73 "2010-03-22T23:50:02Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > For the record, I didn’t report your post - I have a thicker skin than that. But you’re going to be waiting a mighty long time if you are holding out for an apology for me, when I merely quoted your own words back at you. Fine. Maybe you didn’t get to the Miss Manners chapter yet that goes to “when to apologize”. But let’s be accurate. **My words were not directed at you**. Nor anyone else. They were their for emphasis, fully within the rules of this forum. You took them and directed them at me personally. If you don’t see that blaring difference, that’s a problem you carry with you beyond just this thread. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-immigration-reform-one-more-time/533353/74 "2010-03-22T23:53:23Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Ok, I noticed that, and I read her reply again, she is directing that insult to the idea, using your colorful language only to call attention to that silliness, I do agree that not turning it down a notch does not help your position. Oh give me a break. She quoted me and lead off her response with it. And look at her response afterwards—she thinks it’s justified because of what I said. Thinking that it was directed at her. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-immigration-reform-one-more-time/533353/75 "2010-03-22T23:57:32Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Fine. Maybe you didn’t get to the Miss Manners chapter yet that goes to “when to apologize”. But let’ be accurate. **My words were not directed at you**. Nor anyone else. They were their for emphasis, fully within the rules of this forum. You took them and directed them at me personally. If you don’t see that blaring difference, that’s a problem you carry with you beyond just this thread. Actually, I happen to have Miss Manners on the bookshelf, and have read it cover to cover on multiple occasions - maybe you haven’t made it all the way to the chapter where she explains that if you essentially tell people that they are oblivious for holding the opinions they do (rather than, you know, having reached different conclusions from the same information), and on which they have based their entire careers, they are likely to be miffed. And if you’re going to weasel out of your clearly stated opinions that way, then fine, I was directing the swearing quoted from your post at the people who think the writers of the Constitution were a bunch of morons who didn’t actually _understand_ what they were doing when they granted citizenship to everyone born on U.S. soil. My mileage obviously varies. Everyone here is free to decide which of us has a problem. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-immigration-reform-one-more-time/533353/76 "2010-03-23T00:10:39Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > And if you’re going to weasel out of your clearly stated opinions that way, then fine,… I’m not the one weaseling, Weasel, I STAND BY POST #15 COMPLETELY AND PROUDLY. On the other hand, you… > [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > I was directing the swearing quoted from your post at the people who think the writers of the Constitution were a bunch of morons… …you are the one who is weaseling here, Weasel. Reread Page 1of the thread, _you_ directed _you’re_ comment to ME. You did not (as I did) just offer an opinion to a general audience as I had done (see Post 15 again). Now when you’re called on making it personal you try to obfuscate, backpedal or, as you say, WEASEL. :rolleyes: Oh, and you might as well throw away Miss Manners. You obviously don’t understand what’s in it. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-immigration-reform-one-more-time/533353/77 "2010-03-23T00:12:40Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I’m not the one weaseling, Weasel, I STAND BY POST #15 COMPLETELY AND PROUDLY. On the other hand, you… > > …you are the one who is weaseling here, Weasel. Reread Page 1of the thread, _you_ directed _you’re_ comment to ME. You did not (as I did) just offer an opinion to a general audience as I had done (see Post 15 again). Now when you’re called on making it personal you try to obfuscate, backpedal or, as you say, WEASEL. > :rolleyes: This is my last response to you in this thread, except to debunk anything else factually inaccurate that you might post. I’m done with your ilk. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-immigration-reform-one-more-time/533353/78 "2010-03-23T00:20:03Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > This is my last response to you in this thread, except to debunk anything else factually inaccurate that you might post. I’m done with your ilk. And the WEASEL runs away… Unsurprising. But I will thank you in advance for providing FACTS, and not your opinion. Though I’m gonna go out on a limb and predict that this last post of yours here will prove to be an untruth. But before you go, do I get my apology? ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-immigration-reform-one-more-time/533353/79 "2010-03-23T01:20:58Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Oh come on. Do you really not think that the fact that immigrants might vote for the party that is perceived as being more welcoming to them? And that the Dems don’t realize this? It’s a plain as the Reps doing it to keep large companies in some industries flush with cheap labor, which of course, they will show their thanks for through campaign contributions. Yes, and in the long run the GOP will be obsolete according to Steve Sailer: > [@](#): > > The result: If—as in some time-loop nightmare—we just refought the 2008 election over and over, mere demographic change alone would propel the Democrats from 53 percent last year to 59 percent by mid-century. > > That is, if the GOP keeps doing what it did in 2008, the country will become a more or less one-party regime—just like the President’s chosen hometown of Chicago. And that might be the best case scenario. Think Detroit. Or New Orleans. > > And yet the GOP’s plight is not hopeless. Looking at my statistical model of the 2048-2052 elections: if > > the GOP’s share of the white vote grows from 55 percent to 70 percent; and > > white turnout returns to the level seen in 1992 (during Ross Perot’s insurgent run), > > then, all else being equal, GOP candidates would still win in the middle of the 21st century. The party would get a 50.5 percent to 49.5 percent majority in the popular vote in 2052. > > To put that in current perspective, about one third of Obama’s white voters would have had to switch to Republican by 2052. [VDARE.com](http://www.vdare.com/sailer/090920_2050.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-immigration-reform-one-more-time/533353/80 "2010-03-23T01:27:49Z")
Just so it’s clear, I am by no means leaving the thread; I am simply not bothering with one poster, except to debunk factual inaccuracies. So everyone else, feel free to post away. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-immigration-reform-one-more-time/533353.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-immigration-reform-one-more-time/533353.md?page=5)