# Next up: Wisconsin and Hawaii **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 13, 2008, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-wisconsin-and-hawaii/437382 "2008-02-13T01:13:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-wisconsin-and-hawaii/437382/41 "2008-02-19T16:13:43Z")
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy] _ **HOOOOOOOOOO-EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!** _ Poor poor Diane must be furious at how it turned out! Deval put a stake through the plagiarism thing and went on to do a terrific job of campaigning for Obama – to an audience of millions. The look of frustration on her face, the pathetic attempts to maintain a dismissive sneer – priceless. [/QUOTE] LOL!!! I told ya!! 😃 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-wisconsin-and-hawaii/437382/42 "2008-02-19T16:43:56Z")
OMG, that was AWESOME! I hope that teaches that woman a lesson! For the record, here’s a quote from back in _December_, where he acknowledges that he and Deval share ideas and speeches all the time! > [@](#): > > [http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/12/obama-scoffs-th.html](http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/12/obama-scoffs-th.html) > > “But you know in the end, don’t vote your fears. I’m stealing this line from my buddy (Massachusetts Gov.) Deval Patrick who stole a whole bunch of lines from me when he ran for the governorship, but it’s the right one, don’t vote your fears, vote your aspirations. Vote what you believe.” Hillary Clinton is an IDIOT to try this tac, and her bitch Diane Sawyer just had to eat it for her. Good. Now maybe we can get back to talking about _the issues_! ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-wisconsin-and-hawaii/437382/43 "2008-02-19T16:51:08Z")
[QUOTE=Whiteknight] [Here](http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Deval_Patrick_I_asked_Obama_to_0219.html) you go. [/QUOTE] Thanks for posting that link. I enjoyed **Phlosphr** ’s synopsis, but seeing it was priceless. Sawyer couldn’t have been much more obvious about her desire to elicit some sort of negative response out of Patrick. ---
**Author:** ![nameless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/779978/32.png) [@nameless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nameless)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-wisconsin-and-hawaii/437382/44 "2008-02-19T17:06:21Z")
Wow. I didn’t think Sawyer could possibly be so heavy-handed as y’all were saying, but she really went after that. And failed horribly. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-wisconsin-and-hawaii/437382/45 "2008-02-19T18:06:32Z")
Next up: Wisconsin and Hawaii. . . And after that, Texas! [Texas Congressman Chet Edwards endorsed Barack Obama for President](http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/zachedwards/gGgMKW). > [@](#): > > Yesterday, Texas Congressman Chet Edwards, the Democratic Representative for the 17th Congressional district, which includes Crawford, Texas, endorsed Senator Barack Obama for President. According to political analyst Charlie Cook, Congressman Edwards has the most Republican district in America represented by a Democratic congressman. Yes we can! ---
**Author:** ![asrivkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9d8465/32.png) [@asrivkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asrivkin)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-wisconsin-and-hawaii/437382/46 "2008-02-19T18:36:47Z")
Crawford’s Representative supporting Obama spurred me to find this New Yorker article I read in 2004: > **[The Candidate](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2004/05/31/the-candidate-5)** > > How the son of a Kenyan economist became an Illinois Everyman. In particular, this anecdote: Jan Schakowsky told me about a recent visit she had made to the White House with a congressional delegation. On her way out, she said, President Bush noticed her “obama” button. “He jumped back, almost literally,” she said. “And I knew what he was thinking. So I reassured him it was Obama, with a ‘b.’ And I explained who he was. The President said, ‘Well, I don’t know him.’ So I just said, ‘You will.’ ” I bet he does now. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![rikc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c57346/32.png) [@rikc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rikc)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-wisconsin-and-hawaii/437382/47 "2008-02-19T19:06:18Z")
Wow, you guys weren’t kidding about Diane Sawyer. I was cracking up. I love the big Hillary Clinton quote they threw up on the screen. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-wisconsin-and-hawaii/437382/48 "2008-02-19T19:08:38Z")
Does anyone know what the asterisks next to the names of polling firms ARG and PPP mean on the [RealClearPolitics](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/wi/wisconsin_democratic_primary-270.html) site? I couldn’t find what it referred to. Since ARG is involved, maybe it means “this firm’s data sucks.” ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-wisconsin-and-hawaii/437382/49 "2008-02-19T19:29:26Z")
[QUOTE=Crotalus] Does anyone know what the asterisks next to the names of polling firms ARG and PPP mean on the [RealClearPolitics](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/wi/wisconsin_democratic_primary-270.html) site? I couldn’t find what it referred to. Since ARG is involved, maybe it means “this firm’s data sucks.” [/QUOTE] ARG is the American Research Group. Not sure what PPP is (other than the winning party in the Pakistan elections.) ---
**Author:** ![Eureka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/74df32/32.png) [@Eureka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eureka)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-wisconsin-and-hawaii/437382/50 "2008-02-19T19:31:41Z")
[QUOTE=DMark] Which shows the sheer genius of the Clinton campaign. I mean, can you imagine a sports team saying, “oh well, we weren’t suppose to win those last 10 games anyway, but wait until the playoffs!” Amazing that someone can simply say, “it is not a big deal - I wasn’t expected to win there…” with a straight face. [/QUOTE] This comment is particularly striking to me, because I’m reading John Feinstein’s book _The Last Amateurs_ which is about Patriot League Basketball. NCAA Division I basketball, as played by true student athletes. So there is a lot of talk about how one coaches one’s team before and after “Guarentee Games” where the home team pays the Patriot League team 25K to show up and play basketball, with the mostly unspoken assumption that the Patriot League team will lose. Crushing defeats, even if anticipated, are not particularly fun for anyone involved. And the amount of strategy in scheduling so that the team doesn’t play too many guarenteed losses in a row, . . . I’ll go away now. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-wisconsin-and-hawaii/437382/51 "2008-02-19T19:35:25Z")
Chelsea Clinton has been campaigning in Hawaii – just a gesture, or has HRC perhaps got an actual chance there? ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-wisconsin-and-hawaii/437382/52 "2008-02-19T19:55:49Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Chelsea Clinton has been campaigning in Hawaii – just a gesture, or has HRC perhaps got an actual chance there? [/QUOTE] Gesture. Obama’s presence in HI is huge. There have been rally’s there for a while now. [Here](http://www.hawaiiforobama.org/) is the Hawaii website for Obama - as you can tell, they are VERY organized. 😃 One funny thing about HRC and who she chooses to send places, I mean one of her ambassadors if you can call them that is Ted Dansen. :dubious: LOL! I’m not sure Chelsea showing up is really going to do much. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-wisconsin-and-hawaii/437382/53 "2008-02-19T19:58:53Z")
[QUOTE=asrivkin] Crawford’s Representative supporting Obama spurred me to find this New Yorker article I read in 2004: > **[The Candidate](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2004/05/31/the-candidate-5?currentPage=all)** > > How the son of a Kenyan economist became an Illinois Everyman. In particular, this anecdote: Jan Schakowsky told me about a recent visit she had made to the White House with a congressional delegation. On her way out, she said, President Bush noticed her “obama” button. “He jumped back, almost literally,” she said. “And I knew what he was thinking. So I reassured him it was Obama, with a ‘b.’ And I explained who he was. The President said, ‘Well, I don’t know him.’ So I just said, ‘You will.’ ” I bet he does now. 🙂 [/QUOTE] GREAT article! Thanks for sharing it! ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-wisconsin-and-hawaii/437382/54 "2008-02-19T19:59:16Z")
I think it may have been a way for Chelsea to take a mid-February vacation, paid for by her mother’s campaign. “Hey, mom, I’d like to hit the campaign trail. Wisconsin? Nah. Pennsylvania? Yeah, I don’t think so. Wait, there’s a caucus in Hawaii, right? I think I can do your campaign some real good over on the islands.” So when do the kid gloves come off as far as Chelsea is concerned? She’s tough and “legit” enough to campaign for mom and go after her mom’s opponents, but once someone in the media says something “mean” about her, suddenly Hillary goes all “mom” on us? Chelsea’s a grown, college-educated woman; I understand trying to protect your daughter, but if you put her out on the campaign trail, you have to accept that the media and public and opposition will sometimes say not-so-nice things about her. It has to come with the territory. It seems to me that Hillary wants to have an “untouchable” campaigner on her side. Fuck that. I think MSNBC should’ve stood up to Hillary’s bullshit, and not caved by suspending whats-his-name because of his “pimping out” comment. But I digress. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-wisconsin-and-hawaii/437382/55 "2008-02-19T21:08:24Z")
Hawaii loves to support their native sons and daughters. Anyone remember Jasmine Trias? ---
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-wisconsin-and-hawaii/437382/56 "2008-02-19T21:22:54Z")
I think Obama will have a strong showing in Wisconsin, if not take the state. I think that there is a noticeable regional trend developing in the Democratic primary results, even down to the county level in many cases. Take a look at [the NY Times map.](http://politics.nytimes.com/election-guide/2008/results/demmap/index.html) Apart from Michigan’s Upper Peninsula, Obama has been taking these states (obviously so in Illinois’ case). Having grown up on the Minnesota side of Wisconsin and also lived for an extended period of time in Milwaukee, I kinda feel that Wisconsin has shades of it’s neighbors in it’s own DNA. No cites to support that, just my gut feeling. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-wisconsin-and-hawaii/437382/57 "2008-02-19T21:25:15Z")
[QUOTE=Crotalus] Does anyone know what the asterisks next to the names of polling firms ARG and PPP mean on the [RealClearPolitics](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/wi/wisconsin_democratic_primary-270.html) site? I couldn’t find what it referred to. Since ARG is involved, maybe it means “this firm’s data sucks.” [/QUOTE] Judging from their averaged data (which excludes ARG & PPP), I think they DO mean “This is some really shakey data so we’re not going to count it”. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-wisconsin-and-hawaii/437382/58 "2008-02-19T21:32:12Z")
I was born in Ohio, but my parents were not natives (they were grad students), and we moved away when I was two. I have no other connection to Ohio. If I were running for POTUS, I don’t think Ohio would consider me a native son. Why would the Hawaiians feel that way about Obama? His parents were not Hawaiians, they met as college students, and his family moved away (to Indonesia) when he was six. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-wisconsin-and-hawaii/437382/59 "2008-02-19T21:35:14Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] I was born in Ohio, but my parents were not natives (they were grad students), and we moved away when I was two. I have no other connection to Ohio. If I were running for POTUS, I don’t think Ohio would consider me a native son. Why would the Hawaiians feel that way about Obama? His parents were not Hawaiians, they met as college students, and his family moved away (to Indonesia) when he was six. [/QUOTE] Aside from year-round dewey-sweet warmth, what else can they claim? ---
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-wisconsin-and-hawaii/437382/60 "2008-02-19T21:45:53Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] I was born in Ohio, but my parents were not natives (they were grad students), and we moved away when I was two. I have no other connection to Ohio. If I were running for POTUS, I don’t think Ohio would consider me a native son. Why would the Hawaiians feel that way about Obama? His parents were not Hawaiians, they met as college students, and his family moved away (to Indonesia) when he was six. [/QUOTE] I think the short answer is that people like to associate themselves with successes and disassociate themselves with embarrassments. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-wisconsin-and-hawaii/437382.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/next-up-wisconsin-and-hawaii/437382.md?page=4)