# NFL 2021: Week Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** football-nfl\ **Created:** [September 30, 2021, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-four-horsemen-of-the-apocalypse/951658 "2021-09-30T13:42:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2021, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-four-horsemen-of-the-apocalypse/951658/101 "2021-10-05T15:56:05Z")
Strip club? I thought he was at a restaurant that he owns. Also, the Jags looked competitive in their last game. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2021, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-four-horsemen-of-the-apocalypse/951658/102 "2021-10-05T15:56:08Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Call me a meathead if you want Checks forum… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2021, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-four-horsemen-of-the-apocalypse/951658/103 "2021-10-05T15:58:13Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > So Shad Khan hasn’t made a peep about all the losing, or the embarrassing manner in which those losses are occurring So, I haven’t watched an Jags games this season. Is Urban actual doing a bad job coaching? Because they were a 1-15 team last year, I wasn’t expecting them to do much better this year. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2021, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-four-horsemen-of-the-apocalypse/951658/104 "2021-10-05T16:03:25Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > So, I haven’t watched an Jags games this season. Is Urban actual doing a bad job coaching? Because they were a 1-15 team last year, I wasn’t expecting them to do much better this year. They aren’t any worse than the Lions or any other basement dweller in recent years. It’s not like there’s been any obvious coaching malpractice unless you think he’s somehow mismanaging the development of Trevor Lawrence. And while Lawrence has been pretty shaky considering the hype, it’s not like he’s JaMarcus Russell. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2021, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-four-horsemen-of-the-apocalypse/951658/105 "2021-10-05T16:22:00Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Call me a meathead if you want, but this whole thing is complete bullshit. Is Urban Meyer a hypocritical piece of shit? Absolutely. Is he a terrible husband? Maybe, maybe not. We’re not his wife and only she can make that assessment. Did he “embarrass” the league or the Jags? No, not one bit. Certainly not when you compare this to the actions of most every player, and to be frank, to the actions of every single person who has ever flirted at a bar. This is basically a witch hunt because he’s unpopular. Fuck this cancel culture bullshit. It’s the hypocrisy that matters. You can’t tell 90 grown ass men to focus on football and put the team first, when, after your 4th loss, you’re seen partying with some bimbo instead of back with the team working. You can’t preach to men about discipline and making good choice when you’re undisciplined, stupid, and horny. And you can’t expect to have any credibility when trying to coach players and a staff when the entire facade you built as a disciplined Christian with strong “family values” is complete bullshit. Coaches who have shown to be very good at their jobs can get away with some of that kind of stuff. But Urban Meyer hasn’t done shit in the NFL, so he doesn’t have a reservoir of respect and confidence from his team that winning provides. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2021, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-four-horsemen-of-the-apocalypse/951658/106 "2021-10-05T16:34:30Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > It’s not like there’s been any obvious coaching malpractice Hiring a racist to coach, the problem with the NFLPA over his vaccine comments, the pretend QB competition, and the Tebow “experiment” are all working against him, and he’s had no positives that I can see. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2021, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-four-horsemen-of-the-apocalypse/951658/107 "2021-10-05T16:38:52Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > So, I haven’t watched an Jags games this season. Is Urban actual doing a bad job coaching? Because they were a 1-15 team last year, I wasn’t expecting them to do much better this year. The Tebow experiment during training camp. No idea how that affected the locker room having that publicity stunt. With only 3 preseason games, it’s not like when some celebrity takes an at bat during exhibition baseball. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2021, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-four-horsemen-of-the-apocalypse/951658/108 "2021-10-05T16:48:25Z")
My reaction to the Urban Meyer situation This just in: Person with a history of being a piece of crap is a piece of crap. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2021, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-four-horsemen-of-the-apocalypse/951658/109 "2021-10-05T17:08:36Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > It’s the hypocrisy that matters. You can’t tell 90 grown ass men to focus on football and put the team first, when, after your 4th loss, you’re seen partying with some bimbo instead of back with the team working. Meh. I don’t know that he’s said anything which implied his players shouldn’t be going to bars in their spare time. It’s not like he’s blowing off practice, he’s on his personal time. I’m sure most of the team was out doing stuff on their only off night of the week. No one ever said a coach or player is expected to shackle themselves to their desk after a loss. > [@](#): > > You can’t preach to men about discipline and making good choice when you’re undisciplined, stupid, and horny. And you can’t expect to have any credibility when trying to coach players and a staff when the entire facade you built as a disciplined Christian with strong “family values” is complete bullshit. Claiming that being ‘a disciplined Christian with strong “family values”’ is somehow a asset makes you a fucking moron in any circumstance, anyone who puts stock in it is equally foolish. But let’s stop clutching at pearls here, a grown ass man going to a bar and getting cozy with a woman isn’t undisciplined in any way which matters to football (or to anyone’s job really). He might be a colossal hypocrite, but this “incident” won’t alienate him from his players one iota. > [@](#): > > Coaches who have shown to be very good at their jobs can get away with some of that kind of stuff. But Urban Meyer hasn’t done shit in the NFL, so he doesn’t have a reservoir of respect and confidence from his team that winning provides. My point is that he’s not “getting away with this”, there’s nothing to get away with from a football perspective. I’m a lot more disgusted by the numerous coaches who have been busted for DUIs than I am for Meyer grabbing ass. This was some junior high school level PDA, lighten the hell up. > [@Hamlet](#): > > Hiring a racist to coach, the problem with the NFLPA over his vaccine comments, the pretend QB competition, and the Tebow “experiment” are all working against him, and he’s had no positives that I can see. I was obviously talking about on-field stuff. You’re not going to get me to say Meyer isn’t a colossal piece of shit, but it’s beyond pathetic if _this_ turns out being the arrow that kills him. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2021, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-four-horsemen-of-the-apocalypse/951658/110 "2021-10-05T17:10:59Z")
Again I ask, wasn’t this a restaurant that Urban Meyer actually owns? It’s not like he went to a strip club or went to a bar if he owns the freaking joint… ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2021, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-four-horsemen-of-the-apocalypse/951658/111 "2021-10-05T17:16:34Z")
That is correct. He owns the place (a bar-restaurant in Columbus) and it’s named after him. We have no idea who the woman was except that it’s not his wife. That the media has characterized this as a “lap dance” is hilariously scummy journalism. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2021, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-four-horsemen-of-the-apocalypse/951658/112 "2021-10-05T17:19:16Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Is Urban actual doing a bad job coaching? Yes. It’s not just that they’re losing (the Jags losing this year was a given) but how they’re losing. It was only this last game the team looked prepared for a 60 minute NFL game. It’s not great that it took a month to get there but a lot of coaches need additional time to transition from college to professional football. They’re not going to do well this season but maybe they’ll start looking like a professional football team (not necessarily a good professional football team) the rest of the way. That would be a start. That’s aside, of course, from the off field stuff, which has been entertaining (in the sense of a NASCAR crash) if nothing else. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2021, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-four-horsemen-of-the-apocalypse/951658/113 "2021-10-05T18:05:54Z")
Omni, I think you’re underestimating the effect of having little to no respect/trust in your head coach can have on players. To use examples from your team, guys like Trestman, Martz, and Fox lost their locker rooms, and it affected the play on the field. If your players don’t buy into your system or the way you run things as head coach, it can have a negative effect on the on-field play and production of the team. Winning can cure a lot of that (i/e Tom Coughlin), but if your players aren’t playing nhard for you, you’re hurting the team (Josh McDaniels, Matt Patricia). I don’t think just feeling up a chick at your bar while your wife is babysitting and your team is back in Jax is the only reason to fire a NFL head coach. It’s just the latest in a string of bad decisions by a raging asshole. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2021, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-four-horsemen-of-the-apocalypse/951658/114 "2021-10-05T18:13:57Z")
It’s a bad look - maybe that’s all it becomes. I’m curious to know if Urban still has the respect of players in the locker room, which is what will ultimately determine his fate. Embarrassing episodes off the field don’t always lead to bad outcomes. Tony LaRussa has, what, not one but two DUIs? The difference is, LaRussa had built up a lot of capital to burn. He’d won a championship and been competitive for a while before getting his first DUI in 2006. If Meyer were still coach at Ohio State, this would be a scandal but his job would probably be pretty safe. But with this being his first gig in the NFL and a team going 0-4, it’s a completely different set of dynamics. My gut is that Khan is waiting to see how the next two or three weeks play out. If they continue to lose and get spanked, it could be over by mid-season, especially if the rumors about Meyer going to USC keep floating around. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2021, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-four-horsemen-of-the-apocalypse/951658/115 "2021-10-05T18:20:37Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I’m curious to know if Urban still has the respect of players in the locker room, which is what will ultimately determine his fate. An unnamed player reportedly said he does not have their respect. Unnamed, not exactly on the record, so take it with a grain of salt. > The Urban Meyer situation in Jacksonville has reached a crisis point, especially in the locker room. One player told me, ‘He has zero credibility in that stadium. He had very little to begin with.’ > > Players were particularly put off by the fact that Meyer canceled Monday’s team meeting, as he dealt with the uproar over the videos of him and a young woman getting cozy in that Ohio bar. ‘He even canceled the team meeting. He was too scared,’ a player said. > > Instead Meyer ‘only apologized to position groups individually.’ He portrayed the woman in the videos as a random person who was ‘just there dancing.’ Suffice it to say, his audience was highly skeptical. > > Said one player: ‘We looked at him like, WTF? Right when he left everyone started dying laughing. And he knew it.’ > > Bottom line, said the player: ‘It’s bad. I don’t know how he’s gonna function.’ > ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2021, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-four-horsemen-of-the-apocalypse/951658/116 "2021-10-05T18:25:21Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > So Shad Khan hasn’t made a peep about all the losing, or the embarrassing manner in which those losses are occurring, yet he’s Johnny-on-the-spot about his HC going to a strip club? It may be a strategic decision not to second guess a coach about coaching decisions because he doesn’t want to look unappealing to future coaching hires, but it’s understandable to respond to a public scandal so he may be using that to express his dislike/lack of confidence in Meyer without undermining his coaching authority. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2021, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-four-horsemen-of-the-apocalypse/951658/117 "2021-10-05T18:27:42Z")
That account seems pretty plausible to me. It’s probably an accurate assessment ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2021, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-four-horsemen-of-the-apocalypse/951658/118 "2021-10-05T18:30:57Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > It was only this last game the team looked prepared for a 60 minute NFL game. It’s not great that it took a month to get there but a lot of coaches need additional time to transition from college to professional football. This is sorta biased. Yeah, the Jags were crappy for the first 3 weeks. So were a lot of other teams. The Bears in week 3 were worse than just about anyone and the game plan was dismal. The Jets had been a garbage fire for the first 3 weeks. Green Bay came out looking lost in week 1. How those teams lost was as bad or worse than any of the Jags losses. It’s just not reasonable to pin the worst team in football playing like the worst team in football on the head coach’s preparedness or his transition from college. It’s likely that 95% of pro coaches would have ended up in the same spot had they been in that job. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2021, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-four-horsemen-of-the-apocalypse/951658/119 "2021-10-05T18:39:14Z")
I know what it looks like to lose a locker room. There’s zero point zero, zero, zero percent chance that Meyer grabbing a chick’s butt in Columbus has a negative effect on how his players view him. He can hold up his rings, many of his players got their butts kicked by his teams in college at some point. It sure as shit isn’t going to reflect on his “system” on gameday. Him hiring the racist good old boy was fireable for sure. Apart from that, he’s done nothing notable to harm is position. Being an anti-vax sack of shit puts him in league with about 40% of the players unfortunately. Him being a hypocritical bible thumper probably puts him in there with 50%+. Him feeling up a rando at a bar probably puts him in a class with 90% of the players. Seriously, I don’t like the guy either but this is coming across as a bit of a crusade. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2021, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-four-horsemen-of-the-apocalypse/951658/120 "2021-10-05T18:47:58Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > There’s zero point zero, zero, zero percent chance that Meyer grabbing a chick’s butt in Columbus has a negative effect on how his players view him. Did you read the report above? The player didn’t necessarily seem upset about Meyer grabbing some woman’s ass, but he certainly seemed upset with how Mayer was handling it with the players. It doesn’t sound like a locker room supporting their coach, no matter what percent certainty you want to make up. > [@Omniscient](#): > > Seriously, I don’t like the guy either but this is coming across as a bit of a crusade. Your ongoing defense of him is seeming a little weird from this side. Obviously, all the things he has done _is_ harming his position. You might not think it _should_, but it’s ridiculous to argue that it isn’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-four-horsemen-of-the-apocalypse/951658.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-four-horsemen-of-the-apocalypse/951658.md?page=7)