# NFL 2021: Week Seven Deadly Sins **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** football-nfl\ **Created:** [October 21, 2021, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-seven-deadly-sins/952909 "2021-10-21T14:10:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-seven-deadly-sins/952909/82 "2021-10-25T06:15:14Z")
The Wentz thing aside, the Colts handed it to the niners pretty handily, as did my beloved Bengals to the Ratbirds. Man, I finally have a good QB AND a good defense at the same time! Shit! ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-seven-deadly-sins/952909/83 "2021-10-25T09:26:20Z")
> [@3AxisCtrl](#): > > You are right. I searched on “Carson Wentz shovel pass int” and that’s what came up. I didn’t think there’d be more than one. > > And now that I’ve seen today’s version, I agree it’s solidly within the “astoundingly bad” category. Wentz attempted a very easy shovel pass to a wide, wide open Colt in the endzone. In the middle of his passing motion Wentz’s ankle was grabbed by 49er Nick Bosa which pulled him downward causing what would be a simple pass to end up badly ‘under-shoveled’. But it wasn’t nearly as bad and inexplicable as it first looked. Bosa’s ‘help’ is also why it was a fumble, not an interception. That’s just the way I saw it and IMO. Probably by now its been explained to death by those who really know but what the hell. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-seven-deadly-sins/952909/84 "2021-10-25T13:33:33Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > Bosa’s ‘help’ is also why it was a fumble, not an interception. That doesn’t turn a pass into an interception. It’s really common for a QB to be hit while throwing in order to ruin the mechanics of the pass such that it goes off-target and leads to an interception. For it to be a fumble, he can’t be propelling the ball out with his own power. Or the ball has to be going backward (a lateral). Looking at the video, the ball is being tossed by his hand, it doesn’t pop out accidentally when he’s hit. As you said, he was in the process of the passing motion when he was hit. That makes it an errant pass which helps explain why it was such a bad pass. It doesn’t make it a fumble. For that to happen, the ball would have to come out of his possession prior to him starting the passing motion. Calling it a fumble is inexplicably wrong by the NFL. Either way it’s a turnover so it doesn’t make any difference outside of what stats say for the players involved but it’s just so wrong it’s confusing. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-seven-deadly-sins/952909/85 "2021-10-25T13:52:35Z")
Glad to see that whole bit with Johnson’s fine resolved, now the Bears can get back to winning football games… ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-seven-deadly-sins/952909/86 "2021-10-25T15:02:47Z")
What is up with that guy? After a phenomenal start to the season (he was named 1/4 season All Pro by PFF), he’s been pretty dismal the last few games. Granted Davante Adams can make a lot of good CBs look ridiculous, as can Mike Evans. But he’s gone from PFF’s second highest graded CB to their 59th. Is it just the quality of the WR he’s facing now? Did he buy into his own hype too much? Or is it the coaching staff that has him all messed up? ---
**Author:** ![3AxisCtrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/ecd19e/32.png) [@3AxisCtrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3AxisCtrl)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-seven-deadly-sins/952909/87 "2021-10-25T16:35:19Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > Wentz’s ankle was grabbed by 49er Nick Bosa which pulled him downward causing what would be a simple pass to end up badly ‘under-shoveled’. It looked like Wentz had a grip on the ball suitable for a normal pass, but then - well after Bosa first had hands on him - decided to use a ‘shovel’ motion. He ended up pushing on one end of the ball, thus propelling it about a quarter of the necessary distance to the open receiver. It’s a mystery how anyone could call this a fumble: QB’s obviously intentional arm motion propelled the ball forward. Had the ball hit the ground, it should absolutely have been ruled an incomplete pass. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-seven-deadly-sins/952909/88 "2021-10-25T16:39:17Z")
I just heard a news story that Bears head coach Matt Nagy has tested positive for COVID-19, and is entering the league’s protocol. Apparently, he (and the rest of the Bears’ coaching staff) are all vaccinated; it’s early enough in the week that he may be able to leave the protocol before next Sunday’s game. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-seven-deadly-sins/952909/89 "2021-10-25T16:41:54Z")
And the rest of the city of Chicago is hoping he doesn’t clear protocols before the game. ---
**Author:** ![Tierce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@Tierce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tierce)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-seven-deadly-sins/952909/90 "2021-10-25T17:39:48Z")
> [@3AxisCtrl](#): > > It’s a mystery how anyone could call this a fumble: QB’s obviously intentional arm motion propelled the ball forward. Had the ball hit the ground, it should absolutely have been ruled an incomplete pass. The commentators touched on it late in the game. Apparently a defender tipped the ball slightly before it left the QB’s hand, thereby making it technically a fumble. Doesn’t necessarily change what it really _was_, just what it goes in the stats book as… ---
**Author:** ![krisolov](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/krisolov/32/3724_2.png) [@krisolov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/krisolov)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-seven-deadly-sins/952909/91 "2021-10-25T17:53:23Z")
Your Bungles played a hell of a game yesterday. Didn’t end the way I had hoped, but you guys were dialed in on both sides of the ball and were the better team that game. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-seven-deadly-sins/952909/92 "2021-10-25T20:23:01Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > As you said, he was in the process of the passing motion when he was hit. That makes it an errant pass which helps explain why it was such a bad pass. It doesn’t make it a fumble. On further review, you are correct. I completely agree. Not a fumble. I hadn’t thought through the fumble/INT thing much because I was focused on the ‘why’ of the horrible looking pass. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-seven-deadly-sins/952909/93 "2021-10-25T20:29:18Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > On further review, you are correct. I completely agree. Not a fumble. I hadn’t thought through the fumble/INT thing much because I was focused on the ‘why’ of the horrible looking pass. Isn’t it a fumble because the ball was hit by the defender BEFORE he threw it? Technically that defender knocked the ball out of his hands. I don’t know jack about football rules. But both the replay officials and TV commentators saying this are idiots? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-seven-deadly-sins/952909/94 "2021-10-25T20:32:52Z")
The Packers just placed WR Davante Adams on the reserve/COVID-19 list. The Packers have a short week this week, as they play the undefeated Cardinals on Thursday night, so it seems likely that they’ll be without the All-Pro Adams for a tough game. > **[Packers place WR Davante Adams on reserve/COVID-19 list](https://www.packers.com/news/packers-place-wr-davante-adams-on-reserve-covid-19-list)** ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-seven-deadly-sins/952909/95 "2021-10-25T20:33:54Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > Isn’t it a fumble because the ball was hit by the defender BEFORE he threw it? Technically that defender knocked the ball out of his hands. I give up on this. I’ve been responded about this based on memory of the event, not on all the commentary after the game and today. I shouldn’t be speculating at all. Oh well… Colts won. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-seven-deadly-sins/952909/96 "2021-10-25T20:52:15Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > Isn’t it a fumble because the ball was hit by the defender BEFORE he threw it? No, **Atamasama** is correct. It doesn’t matter what causes the ball to leave his hands once it starts moving forward. From the rulebook: > When a player is in control of the ball and attempting to pass it forward, any intentional forward movement of his hand **starts a forward pass.** > (a) If the passer is attempting to throw a forward pass, but contact by an opponent materially affects him, causing the ball to go backward, it is a forward pass, regardless of where the ball strikes the ground, a player, an official, or anything else. This mentions the ball going backward, but the same thing applies if the ball continues moving forward after the player is contacted. It’s still considered a pass. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-seven-deadly-sins/952909/97 "2021-10-26T01:13:30Z")
The way the officials are calling this New Orleans drive, do they have money on this game? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-seven-deadly-sins/952909/98 "2021-10-26T02:54:15Z")
Joe Flacco goes back to the Jets, where he was a backup last season. The Eagles traded him to the Jets, who needed an experienced QB for at least a few weeks, as Zach Wilson is out with a knee sprain. Flacco is expected to be a backup, with Mike White remaining the starter for now. > **[Jets bring back QB Flacco in trade with Eagles](https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32473945/eagles-trading-veteran-qb-joe-flacco-jets-conditional-pick)** > > The Philadelphia Eagles have traded veteran quarterback Joe Flacco to the New York Jets, sending him back to the team for which he played during the 2020 season. ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-seven-deadly-sins/952909/99 "2021-10-26T17:03:57Z")
RB Alvin Kamara was the star of the Monday night Saints win over the Seahawks. He slid through Seattle’s porous defense with seeming ease. Neither QB was impressive. Geno Smith had to call timeout twice in the second half to avoid delay of game penalties; timeouts that the Seahawks could surely have used late in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-seven-deadly-sins/952909/100 "2021-10-26T17:05:28Z")
> [@zimaane](#): > > Neither QB was impressive. Geno Smith had to call timeout twice in the second half to avoid delay of game penalties; timeouts that the Seahawks could surely have used late in the game. I agree they both looked bad. The entire Seattle offense, (including whoever was calling the plays) had a very bad night. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-seven-deadly-sins/952909/101 "2021-10-26T17:21:53Z")
I tend to give QBs more of a pass in bad weather. And definitely opposing QBs in Seattle no matter the weather. It’s hard to look good in wind and rain. Likewise the Sunday night game. That game was a blooper reel waiting to happen. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-seven-deadly-sins/952909.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-week-seven-deadly-sins/952909.md?page=6)