# NFL 2023-2024: Super Bowl 58 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** football-nfl\ **Created:** [February 4, 2024, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-2024-super-bowl-58/997095 "2024-02-04T16:14:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2024, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-2024-super-bowl-58/997095/341 "2024-02-12T20:41:38Z")
> [@Frosted\_Glass](#): > > As someone who is indifferent about the Niners and the Chiefs, I thought it was a very entertaining Super Bowl. I know the lack of big scoring plays and abundance of punts is usually seen as a downside, but I love defensive games. Sure there were some mistakes, but there were a lot of excellent defensive plays for both teams. As someone who _likes_ both teams, I agree with this. The teams were very evenly matched. Low scoring because both defenses were more consistent than both offenses. I thought it was an excellent game. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2024, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-2024-super-bowl-58/997095/342 "2024-02-12T21:16:21Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > But had the Chiefs played like they played yesterday against a team that didn’t fumble twice, take themselves out of plays with penalties, and some questionable coaching calls, I think they lose. You are definitely correct with this statement. But on the other hand, had the Chiefs played mistake-free football, they may very well win without the late-game heroics of Mahomes. > [@Hamlet](#): > > I think the “when it matters” trope is our biggest sticking point. We can agree to disagree on this point. I’ll stand by my assertion that the great ones play great when the game is on the line. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2024, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-2024-super-bowl-58/997095/343 "2024-02-12T21:19:45Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > If it were truly sudden death, getting the ball first would be a huge advantage. NFL overtime used to be truly sudden death, and many teams won OT games in large part because they won the flip. > [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > I wish they would stick with one set of OT rules for the long run. I’m with you on this one. The rules that were utilized yesterday need to be placed into the regular season. I’ve previously advocated for this on this board, but I didn’t get a lot of support for my position. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2024, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-2024-super-bowl-58/997095/344 "2024-02-12T21:26:15Z")
> [@"TreacherousCretin](#): > > As someone who _likes_ both teams, I agree with this. The teams were very evenly matched. Low scoring because both defenses were more consistent than both offenses. I thought it was an excellent game. I thought it was an exciting game at the end. But exciting does not equal good football. There were 4 turnovers, 2 by each team. And they weren’t like “what an amazing defensive play”, turnovers, they were 3 failure to hold onto the ball fumbles and a bad interception. In the Super Bowl, committing two turnovers should cost you a game against a great team. The Niners had a 25% 3rd down conversion rate, which is horrid. As in the worst NFL team (the Jets) ha a 26% rate. The Chiefs had 55 penalty yards, which would have ranked 29th in the league on a per game basis. Both teams made too many self-inflicted mistakes. But, since their opposing team also made too many mistakes, it made for an exciting ending. But it wasnt a case of two great teams playing well in the biggest game of the year, which is what the Super Bowl should be. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2024, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-2024-super-bowl-58/997095/345 "2024-02-12T21:30:31Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Neither team was impressive yesterday. The defenses were very good, especially the Chiefs’ adjustments in the second half. I think Mahomes left a lot to be desired in the first half - but that’s what tends to happen when you play one of the best defenses in the league. The same held true on the other side. A player of Mahomes’ caliber isn’t going to shine throughout the game - but he continually put himself in a position to expose the 9ers to a weak moment. They just didn’t show up very often. > [@Hamlet](#): > > Both teams made too many self-inflicted mistakes. I think that’s fair. The personal foul was particularly egregious. Great teams tend to force the other team to screw up, though. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2024, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-2024-super-bowl-58/997095/346 "2024-02-12T21:41:05Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > It’s very simple. The team was just trying to shift the momentum with some north-south running while the receivers were going vertical. Gotta pull Fouts out of announcer retirement so he can tell us how the Chiefs won because they didn’t hold anything back ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2024, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-2024-super-bowl-58/997095/347 "2024-02-12T21:41:11Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Great teams tend to force the other team to screw up, though. By the same metric, great teams should not be forced into mistakes by the other team. Perhaps my expectations were too high, especially given the shaky route both teams had taken to get to the Super Bowl. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2024, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-2024-super-bowl-58/997095/348 "2024-02-12T21:51:06Z")
I wouldn’t consider either team in yesterday’s game to be particularly ‘great’, particularly when compared to ‘great’ teams of the past, like the 85 Bears, 72 Dolphins, or 92 Cowboys, to name a few. But the Super Bowl champion isn’t necessarily a great team; it’s the best team that season. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2024, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-2024-super-bowl-58/997095/349 "2024-02-12T22:25:54Z")
I still say the Lions could’ve taken them Chiefs. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2024, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-2024-super-bowl-58/997095/350 "2024-02-12T23:35:43Z")
Isn’t the penalty based on the lineman’s position when the pass is thrown, not when it’s caught? ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2024, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-2024-super-bowl-58/997095/351 "2024-02-12T23:37:37Z")
The Lions have a good team this season. They certainly could have beaten the Chiefs yesterday. Sure. But Jared Goff has (at least) one problem in that if you can flush him out of the pocket, he’s not nearly as effective as he is throwing from back in a stable pocket. And Spags would have done that all day. But no matter who the NFC sent to the game, as long as the Chiefs have the ball at the end of the game and are within one score, Mahomes is highly likely to win the game. I’m reminded of something John Madden said about Joe Montana and Bill Walsh’s 49ers, and I’m pretty sure he said it about the final drive in Super Bowl XXIII (the John Taylor TD catch from Montana) that when the 49ers have possession at the end of the game and are within one score, it’s the realization _by the other team_ that the game is lost and there’s nothing they can do about it. I’m paraphrasing but that’s essentially what he said. And we saw it last night. And I felt that at the beginning of the Chiefs’ final drive. Sometimes you just can’t stop greatness, and as a 49er fan, the inevitability of it was painful to watch. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2024, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-2024-super-bowl-58/997095/352 "2024-02-12T23:45:59Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > I wouldn’t consider either team in yesterday’s game to be particularly ‘great’, particularly when compared to ‘great’ teams of the past, like the 85 Bears, 72 Dolphins, or 92 Cowboys, to name a few. But the Super Bowl champion isn’t necessarily a great team; it’s the best team that season. You may not, but I include the 1989 San Francisco 49ers in that group. And in Super Bowl XXIV, 55-10 is still the most dominant win and the most points ever scored among all the Super Bowls (with thanks to Leon Lett and Don Beebe). [![](https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:1100/format:webp/1*QxU872qfCph60TJ9zqmdJg.jpeg) ](https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:1100/format:webp/1*QxU872qfCph60TJ9zqmdJg.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-2024-super-bowl-58/997095/353 "2024-02-13T00:06:06Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > I’m beginning to equate Kyle Shanahan with Marv Levy. I think he’s considerably worse than Levy. In most of Levy’s Super Bowls, his Bills were simply outmatched by superior opponents. They never had a real chance. Shanahan, on the other hand, has led by 25, 10 and 10 points respectively in his three Super Bowls and blown all of those leads. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-2024-super-bowl-58/997095/354 "2024-02-13T00:07:12Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Isn’t the penalty based on the lineman’s position when the pass is thrown, not when it’s caught? You are correct. I just looked up the rules. I stand corrected. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-2024-super-bowl-58/997095/355 "2024-02-13T03:16:23Z")
There is also a grace period (grace distance?) beyond the line of scrimmage that offensive lineman can go similar to a quarterback throwing the ball as he’s crossing the line of scrimmage. Something like if any body part is one yard beyond the line or less it’s all good. That lineman was well within that grace…distance? (I think there’s an actual term for this that I’m just blanking on, possibly just a regular colloquial term not specific to football.) ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-2024-super-bowl-58/997095/356 "2024-02-13T05:06:27Z")
I thought they were quite exact about it, especially for QB’s throwing a pass, and that the ball had to be on or behind the LoS. In all my years of watchiing the game, I’d never heard of any concept of any grace distance. But hey, my years of watching don’t make me any sort of expert. I remember the scrutiny they did on the Music City Miracle, but that was a lateral and not a QB throwing a pass. They even said that the lateral line could be within the width of the ball, which to my eye applied to Frank Wycheck’s pass, which appeared to move forward a little bit but stayed within the width of the ball. (And – whoa!! – I just searched on him and just found out he passed away just last December, at only 52! I don’t recall that and there isn’t any thread with Wycheck in its title. Did we discuss that? If so I don’t recall it.) ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-2024-super-bowl-58/997095/357 "2024-02-13T11:28:53Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > I thought they were quite exact about it, especially for QB’s throwing a pass, and that the ball had to be on or behind the LoS. Nope. That’s one of the more surprising rules - it’s based on if any part of the thrower’s body is on or behind the line of scrimmage. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-2024-super-bowl-58/997095/358 "2024-02-13T12:05:40Z")
Yeah, @Munch, that’s what it is. I misremembered. I had thought it was 1 yard past the line for QBs and 2 yards past the line for OL, but it’s the LOS itself for QBs and one yard for OL. But again, your entire body has to be clearly past the allowed limit for it to be called. > **[Ineligible receiver downfield](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ineligible_receiver_downfield)** > > In gridiron football, an ineligible receiver downfield, or an ineligible man downfield, is a penalty called against the offensive team when a forward pass is thrown while a player who is ineligible to receive a pass is beyond the line of scrimmage without blocking an opponent at the time of the pass. A player is determined ineligible based on his position at the time of the snap. When the ball is snapped, the offense is required to have no more than eleven players on the field, out of whom on Th... > The rule varies among leagues. In the NFL, ineligible receivers must have at least part of their body no more than 1 yard beyond the line of scrimmage when a pass is thrown, unless they are engaged in a continuous block that began prior to leaving the 1-yard zone. In college football, the NCAA allows ineligible receivers a maximum of 3 yards.[4][5] The penalty in both the NFL and NCAA is 5 yards.[1][6] The NCAA allows for an exception on screen plays, where the ineligible player is allowed to cross the line of scrimmage to go out and block when the ball is caught behind the line of scrimmage. ---
**Author:** ![LoneRhino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lonerhino/32/1311_2.png) [@LoneRhino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LoneRhino)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-2024-super-bowl-58/997095/359 "2024-02-13T16:05:24Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Shanahan, on the other hand, has led by 25, 10 and 10 points respectively in his three Super Bowls and blown all of those leads. I didn’t know that Shanahan has been a head coach in 3 super bowls. I don’t understand why the offensive coordinator gets the blame for a team blowing a 28-3 lead. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-2024-super-bowl-58/997095/360 "2024-02-13T16:34:59Z")
The OC always has a major share of the blame. In this instance, it was Shanahan always insisting on passing the ball in situations where running was the obvious choice. When you’re up 28-3, that’s a lead that’s virtually impossible to blow if you’re running the ball even just semi-decently well. Shanahan’s choice to have Matt Ryan drop back to throw near the end of the game (and get sacked) cost the Falcons a could-have-been 31-20 lead that would most likely have salted away the game for good. In fact, I think it was even demonstrated later with analysis that if Shanahan had simply had Ryan take a knee three times (near the Patriots’ 20-yard line,) the Falcons would have been better off than what Shanahan did in real life. Same with two days ago. McCaffrey was running well but several classic Shanahan “nah we’ll throw instead” choices cost the Niners at least one field goal if not more. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-2024-super-bowl-58/997095.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-2024-super-bowl-58/997095.md?page=19)