# NFL 2023 Off-Season Thread
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-off-season-thread/979801
**Category:** The Game Room
**Tags:** football-nfl
**Created:** [February 14, 2023, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-off-season-thread/979801 "2023-02-14T21:26:32Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2023, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-off-season-thread/979801/21 "2023-02-21T14:33:08Z")
He seriously asked for $45 million? Forget his arm. At least he’s got a pair worthy of an elite NFL QB.
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### Author:  [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2023, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-off-season-thread/979801/22 "2023-02-21T16:05:14Z")
> [@EllisDee](#):
>
> Looks like Jones fired his agent and is now asking for $45 million, on par with Patrick Mahomes.
Just a reminder that if you hear a story about a player asking for an exorbitant amount of money then the source is the team. If you hear a story about a player wanting nothing more than what is fair, the source is the player. Usually the truth is somewhere in the middle.
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### Author:  [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2023, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-off-season-thread/979801/23 "2023-02-21T17:20:39Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#):
>
> Usually the truth is somewhere in the middle.
Exactly. And there’s a massive difference between “I’m starting my negotiation at the high end so I can meet you in the middle” and “I deserve what Mahomes gets or I won’t play”. I don’t think we know what the real story is, or if that $45m figure is even accurate.
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### Author:  [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2023, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-off-season-thread/979801/24 "2023-02-22T05:58:29Z")
> [@EllisDee](#):
>
> The article says they’ll franchise tag him for $32 million using the tag that lets him talk to other teams. Nobody’s giving him $45, much less an additional two first rounders they’d have to send over if they wanted to pry him from the Giants.
It’s interesting. I’m not a believer in Jones, and the general consensus of the public is the same, but if NFL GMs have a substantially different view this might not be a crazy deal. Assuming you’re a team that believes you’re going to be pretty good the next few years with Jones calling plays, trading away 2 firsts is probably a pretty cheap way to lock up a young proven potentially great QB. Certainly, Jones would take less draft capital get than the Bears 1st round pick and maybe less than Rodgers too.
Think about it if you’re Washington. You either get your new OC a good run/pass QB that he can use creatively while simultaneously depriving a playoff-caliber divisional rival of a starting QB, or you force the same rival’s hand into paying a lot more for their QB than they want. It’s moot if you think Jones sucks of course, but if you think his play this year with a fantastically fucked up WR room was a sign of great potential…
This is a 4D chess move by Jones, I think. If he forces the team to use the tag on him in order to force him to accept $32M that means the team is almost certainly gonna be forced to part ways with Saquon. If the team wants to tag Saquon at the appealing $10M RB number, they need to get Jones locked up before the deadline. I think odds are good that he gets a $35M/year deal with hard-to-hit incentives that push it up to $40M+. He may also be able to get $70M+ fully guaranteed.
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### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2023, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-off-season-thread/979801/25 "2023-02-22T15:32:46Z")
Niners QB Brock Purdy, who injured the UCL in his right (throwing) elbow during the NFC Championship Game, had been scheduled to have surgery on it today, but the procedure is being pushed back to next month, due to continued swelling and inflammation in the joint.
Purdy and the Niners are hoping that the surgery will be a repair, rather than a reconstruction/replacement, such as a Tommy John procedure (but, the surgeons indicate that there is no way to be certain until they actually conduct the surgery). If it’s the former, he would be looking at a six-month recovery, and be able to start throwing after three months; however, with the delay in the surgery, he would likely not be able to return to play until late in the preseason.
> **[Source: Purdy surgery delayed due to swelling](https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35709534/sources-niners-purdy-now-aiming-march-elbow-surgery)**
>
> Brock Purdy continues to have inflammation in his elbow, which is why Dr. Keith Meister recommended that he postpone the surgery. They are aiming to regroup in early March with the hopes of getting it done then.
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### Author:  [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)
#### Post date: [February 23, 2023, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-off-season-thread/979801/26 "2023-02-23T05:37:17Z")
I know it’s common to wait until swelling goes down for most surgeries of this type, but I have to wonder if there’s some correlation between the length of time between the injury and the repair and the long-term prognosis. I know many pitchers tend to return from Tommy John stronger and with a better breaking ball, but the body is working on that injury this whole time.
Also, if it turns out it’s the replacement instead of the repair, there will certainly be questions about the way the 49ers handled the second half with Purdy.
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### Author:  [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)
#### Post date: [February 23, 2023, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-off-season-thread/979801/27 "2023-02-23T23:21:32Z")
Rams moving on from Bobby Wagner. While the Rams stunk last season, it wasn’t the fault of Wagner.
>
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### Author:  [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2023, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-off-season-thread/979801/28 "2023-02-24T20:18:31Z")
The Athletic is reporting that Russell Wilson demanded Seattle fire both Pete Carroll and John Schneider for holding him back and wanted them to bring in Sean Payton. He denies the report, of course.
> **['Too much influence,' too few wins in Russell Wilson's first year with Broncos](https://theathletic.com/4238804/2023/02/24/russell-wilson-denver-broncos-influence-offense/)**
>
> What doomed Denver? An over-accommodating head coach and a quarterback who failed to live up to expectations after getting what he wanted.
In light of what happened this season in Denver and Seattle, and the very real possibility Payton will get rid of Wilson as soon as possible (which may be 1-2 years off, given his salary), such delicious, delicious schadenfreude.
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### Author:  [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2023, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-off-season-thread/979801/29 "2023-02-24T20:28:39Z")
> [@dalej42](#):
>
> While the Rams stunk last season, it wasn’t the fault of Wagner.
A number of people felt that he should have been a Pro Bowler last year, and that he was [snubbed](https://www.si.com/nfl/rams/news/los-angeles-raheem-morris-bobby-wagner-pro-bowl-snub-nfc). It’s amazing that he’s still so good at his age.
But that age… He will be 33 years old by the time the preseason starts, at a very violent and physical position where players don’t generally last long into their 30s. Being a linebacker is almost like being a running back. Most start to seriously decline around 30. And he is so risky now… With his accomplishments and proven leadership he can demand a hefty salary, but anyone who signs him has to be gambling on whether or not he will stay healthy or suddenly stop being able to produce, which are both very real possibilities. And you know he’s not going to be a long-term prospect anywhere.
Some people are floating the idea of returning him to Seattle but they’ve been trying to go younger. The person that has emerged as the leader of the defense with Wagner’s departure has been Jordyn Brooks, another talented linebacker who is only 25. He also just had surgery for a torn ACL and they don’t know how late in the season he’ll be back, so they could use both a leader and another linebacker in his absence. I don’t see Wagner being okay to come in as a temporary substitute for a discount, and I don’t think Seattle would disrespect him by offering that anyway.
**Somebody** is going to sign him, I just have no idea where he might go.
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### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [February 27, 2023, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-off-season-thread/979801/30 "2023-02-27T21:24:19Z")
The Commanders cut QB Carson Wentz today, freeing up $26 million on their salary cap in the process. They’d obtained in him a trade with the Colts last off-season; he missed half of 2022 with a broken finger, and was inconsistent when he did play, winding up third on the depth chart by the end of the year.
Taylor Heinecke, who was the team’s starter for most of 2021, and started in Wentz’ absence last year, is about to become a free agent; as far as I can tell, the only quarterbacks that the Commanders still have under contract are Jake Fromm and Sam Howell (who started the 2022 season finale).
> **[Commanders release QB Wentz after one season](https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35748616/commanders-cut-qb-carson-wentz-one-season)**
>
> The Commanders released quarterback Carson Wentz on Monday, saving $26.176 million on their salary cap.
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### Author:  [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)
#### Post date: [February 27, 2023, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-off-season-thread/979801/31 "2023-02-27T23:06:41Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#):
>
> The Commanders cut QB Carson Wentz today
I wonder if Eric Bieniemy, newly hired as OC, made this decision?
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### Author:  [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)
#### Post date: [February 27, 2023, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-off-season-thread/979801/32 "2023-02-27T23:13:45Z")
> [@Railer13](#):
>
> I wonder if Eric Bieniemy, newly hired as OC, made this decision?
I was thinking the same thing. And it might still have been a cap decision; you can get some key people for $26 million to beef up the offense.
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### Author:  [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)
#### Post date: [February 27, 2023, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-off-season-thread/979801/33 "2023-02-27T23:25:34Z")
> [@Railer13](#):
>
> > [@kenobi\_65](#):
> >
> > The Commanders cut QB Carson Wentz today
>
> I wonder if Eric Bieniemy, newly hired as OC, made this decision?
> [@Atamasama](#):
>
> I was thinking the same thing. And it might still have been a cap decision; you can get some key people for $26 million to beef up the offense.
Nah, it’s a no-brainer. Wentz hasn’t been much of a QB the last few years, even when he was able to stay healthy (which wasn’t often). Given the cap savings, any semi-intelligent GM would have cut him with or without input from a new OC.
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### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [February 27, 2023, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-off-season-thread/979801/34 "2023-02-27T23:29:35Z")
> [@Akaj](#):
>
> Wentz hasn’t been much of a QB the last few years, even when he was able to stay healthy (which wasn’t often). Given the cap savings, any semi-intelligent GM would have cut him with or without input from a new OC.
Agreed, though it’s possible that they waited until the new OC had a chance to weigh in. Either way, I imagine that either they plan to try to re-sign Heinecke, or they have some other free agent / trade-bait quarterback in mind.
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### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2023, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-off-season-thread/979801/35 "2023-02-28T15:27:11Z")
In a recurring theme, the Falcons become the latest to cut a veteran quarterback who’s lost his starting job. Atlanta has parted ways with Marcus Mariota, who had been replaced by rookie Desmond Ridder late last season.
> **[Falcons release benched QB Mariota in cap move](https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35753157/falcons-release-benched-qb-marcus-mariota-cap-move)**
>
> The Atlanta Falcons released quarterback Marcus Mariota on Tuesday, the team announced.
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### Author:  [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2023, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-off-season-thread/979801/36 "2023-02-28T15:59:43Z")
Interesting that, of the four QBs taken 1-2 in 2015 and 2016, three (Mariota, Winston, Wentz) are currently without a team and the fourth (Goff) was widely viewed as washed up before a strong comeback last season. None achieved anywhere near the potential they were drafted for.
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### Author:  [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2023, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-off-season-thread/979801/37 "2023-02-28T16:11:06Z")
Dan Snyder, always a trainwreck, now demanding legal protection from all his dirtbag behavior that he displayed or condoned as owner from the other owners and the NFL if he sells the team. This after saying he wouldn’t sell for less than $6bil and locking out Jeff Bezos from bidding. Lol.
> **[Report: Commanders owner Dan Snyder wants legal protection if he sells team](https://www.yahoo.com/now/report-commanders-owner-dan-snyder-011305053.html)**
>
> Dan Snyder allegedly makes demands to the NFL and fellow owners.
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### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2023, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-off-season-thread/979801/38 "2023-02-28T16:11:40Z")
> [@Akaj](#):
>
> Interesting that, of the four QBs taken 1-2 in 2015 and 2016, three (Mariota, Winston, Wentz) are currently without a team
Jameis Winston, as far as I can tell, is still under contract with the Saints; it appears that he signed a two-year contract with them last March, though he spent much of last season as a backup, behind Andy Dalton.
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### Author:  [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2023, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-off-season-thread/979801/39 "2023-02-28T16:15:20Z")
> [@Akaj](#):
>
> the four QBs taken 1-2 in 2015 and 2016
Don’t forget the other QB drafted in the first round in 2016, Paxton Lynch, taken in the #26 spot by the Broncos. After spending a year in the CFL, he’s now the quarterback for the Orlando Guardians of the XFL.
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### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2023, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-off-season-thread/979801/40 "2023-02-28T16:17:11Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#):
>
> Dan Snyder, always a trainwreck, now demanding legal protection from all his dirtbag behavior that he displayed or condoned as owner from the other owners and the NFL if he sells the team.
An article on ESPN’s site today indicates that Snyder had the team take out a $55 million line of credit with Bank of America a few years ago, without the knowledge or approval of the team’s three minority owners.
When those other owners complained, it appears that Roger Goodell and the league stonewalled the investigation, and Snyder eventually bought out their shares in the team, at what appears to be a substantial discount versus what he is now asking for, as he looks to sell the team.
It seems to have been one incident in a pattern of behavior, in which Snyder treated the team as his personal piggy bank (such as charging the then-Redskins $4.5 million to put the team logo on the tail of his personal jet).
> **[Disputed loan at center of Commanders probe](https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35726691/former-partners-say-dan-snyder-used-team-fund-lifestyle-took-improper-loan-their-approval)**
>
> A $55 million loan has become a primary focus of federal prosecutors in Virginia who are investigating allegations of financial misconduct by Dan Snyder and the Washington Commanders, multiple sources with firsthand knowledge of the inquiry told...
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