# NFL 2023: Week 12 men who have walked on the moon
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536
**Category:** The Game Room
**Tags:** football-nfl
**Created:** [November 22, 2023, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536 "2023-11-22T15:47:37Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2023, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/1 "2023-11-22T15:47:37Z")
Thanksgiving week is here, which means NFL on Thursday (3 games), also Black Friday (Amazon Prime game), and everybody else playing on Sunday or Monday. There are no byes this week.
Thursday:
Packers @ Lions (-7.5)
Commanders @ Cowboys (-12.5)
49ers @ Seahawks (+7)
Friday:
Dolphins @ Jets (+10)
Sunday early:
Jaguars @ Texans (+1.5)
Steelers @ Bengals (+1)
Patriots @ Giants (+3.5)
Saints @ Falcons (-1)
Buccaneers @ Colts (-2.5)
Panthers @ Titans (-3.5)
Sunday late:
Browns @ Broncos (-2.5)
Rams @ Cardinals (+1)
Chiefs @ Raiders (+8.5)
Bills @ Eagles (-3.5)
Sunday Night:
Ravens @ Chargers (+3.5)
Monday Night:
Bears @ Vikings (-3.5)
Detroit is favored by 7.5, which has to be the largest favorite spread for them on Thanksgiving in years. Fins @ Jets is a double-digit spread, but still has the feeling of a trap game. Texans will try for a season sweep over the Jags, in a game that suddenly has playoff implications. Steelers are favored on the road over the Burrow-less Bengals, and somehow the Pats are favored on the road over the Giants. Browns/Broncos is a really interesting matchup, as is the Bills/Eagles. The Chargers desperately need a win to keep their season alive, while the Vikings are favored at home over their divisional rival.
What say you? Got any upsets on which you’ll be wagering? Steelers/Bengals over/under is 34.5, while the Pats/Giants o/u is 33.5. Points will be a premium in both those games. Can the Broncos keep rolling over a pretty good Cleveland defense?
Let’s hear from you. Football tomorrow at 9:30 am Pacific Time!
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### Author:  [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2023, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/2 "2023-11-22T16:01:04Z")
Fittingly starting on Turkey Day, the 49ers play five games in a row against bird teams (Seahawks, Eagles, Seahawks, Cardinals, Ravens).
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### Author:  [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2023, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/3 "2023-11-22T16:03:38Z")
Lions - Packers on a short week for the second time this season. That has to be an oddity (and bullshit). But I expect it to go about as well as the first game. The Lions are looking great, and the Packers just…aren’t.
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### Author:  [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2023, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/4 "2023-11-22T16:05:37Z")
I think the Lions will handle the Packers easily. Last week’s game was (hopefully) a wakeup, and I don’t see Goff throwing 3 interceptions again.
But the 49ers line seems high. They are certainly capable of beating Seattle by 20 points, and Seattle is capable of losing by 20, especially with Gino not at 100%. But as @Atamasama has pointed out in other threads, who knows what you get from Seattle in any given game, and as we saw during their 3-game losing streak, who knows what you get from the Niners. A rivalry game in Seattle, things could easily go south for SF.
Lots of good matchups that I don’t really care about in the Sunday early games. In the late games, I’ll pick this week as when the Philly magic runs out and Josh Allen wills the Bills to a win.
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### Author:  [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2023, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/5 "2023-11-22T17:15:00Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#):
>
> I expect it to go about as well as the first game. The Lions are looking great, and the Packers just…aren’t.
> [@TroutMan](#):
>
> I think the Lions will handle the Packers easily. Last week’s game was (hopefully) a wakeup, and I don’t see Goff throwing 3 interceptions again.
I hope you guys are right. Despite their 8-2 record on paper, and despite the 3 game winning streak, those last 3 games the Lions have looked awfully shaky at times.
**Lions against the Raiders:** Hey, we’re _ **trying** _ to give the game to you guys!
**Raiders:** Sorry, we want the win even less than you.
**Lions defense against the Chargers:** Go ahead and score all you want! Our offense will just try to score a few points more.
**Lions against the Bears:** See ‘Lions against the Raiders’, above.
I won’t even mentions the Ravens game before those… 😠
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### Author:  [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2023, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/6 "2023-11-22T20:15:44Z")
Patriots - Giants used to be big games. Now it’s a snoozer except for draft implications.
I see Denver handling the Browns (dammit). Brownies coming off two high stakes rivalry games are due for a letdown. I’d take Wilson at home, who’s playing well, over the rookie.
I’d play mostly unders, a lot of disappointing offenses and key injuries (i.e. Smith for Seatle may be limited).
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### Author:  [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2023, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/7 "2023-11-23T03:08:29Z")
Something weird is gonna happen in Monday Night. Not sure what, but definitely something goofy.
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### Author:  [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2023, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/8 "2023-11-23T18:26:52Z")
Hmm. I wonder if any team has ever played all 5 bird teams in a season. Regular season it would have to be the 49ers or the Rams, to get the 2 in their own division.
It would open up a little if you include the playoffs, but still almost impossible for an AFC team.
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### Author:  [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2023, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/9 "2023-11-23T19:45:26Z")
Did Greg Olsen just rip open that turducken with his hands? I believe he did, and it sounds like he’s now chowing on it.
And now, back to the game…
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### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2023, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/10 "2023-11-23T20:46:49Z")
The Packers win a game where I thought they wouldn’t have a chance. Love looked great, the patched-together defense continually pressured Goff (who lost three fumbles), and the Lions’ offense looked bewildered for the first 50 minutes of the game.
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### Author:  [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2023, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/11 "2023-11-23T23:27:54Z")
77-year-old Dolly Parton in a Dallas Cowboys Cheerleader outfit singing a Queen medley to kick off the Salvation Army fundraising campaign; there are some things you just can’t un-see.
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### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2023, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/12 "2023-11-24T01:53:11Z")
DaRon Bland set an NFL record with his 5th pick-six for the season.
As for Lions, certainly didn’t see that Pack loss coming. The Eagles have probably sewn up the No. 1 seed now thanks to Green Bay.
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### Author:  [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2023, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/13 "2023-11-24T02:20:23Z")
> [@Velocity](#):
>
> The Eagles have probably sewn up the No. 1 seed now thanks to Green Bay.
Eagles have one loss. Lions, Niners, and Cowboys all have three losses.
The Eagles still play the Niners and Boys, as well as the Bills and Seahawks. I don’t think they are selling playoff tickets quite yet.
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### Author:  [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2023, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/14 "2023-11-24T03:07:54Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#):
>
> Love looked great, the patched-together defense continually pressured Goff (who lost three fumbles), and the Lions’ offense looked bewildered for the first 50 minutes of the game.
If Jordan Love played like that every game, he’d be a legit franchise QB.
I don’t think it’s too late for that to happen.
He was fun to watch!
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### Author:  [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2023, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/15 "2023-11-24T04:11:35Z")
Terrible officiating in Seattle.
Hawks have to kick a FG after the refs miss a **blatant** pass interference in the end zone.
Just a bit ago, a defender not just makes forcible contact with Geno’s head, they YANK HIS HELMET OFF. No flag. I guess “roughing the passer” has a Seattle exception.
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### Author:  [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2023, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/16 "2023-11-24T08:55:46Z")
> [@Velocity](#):
>
> As for Lions, certainly didn’t see that Pack loss coming. The Eagles have probably sewn up the No. 1 seed now thanks to Green Bay.
Nor did I. The Packers almost look like the juggernaut we all remember.
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### Author:  [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2023, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/17 "2023-11-24T14:09:30Z")
The Lions seem to be getting worse as the season goes on. In the first half of the season the Lions looked very much in control of the games they won. Even the game two loss against the Seahawks was a close OT win that could have gone either way.
But after that loss against the Ravens where the Lions looked totally overmatched, they’ve looked shaky ever since. Yes, they had a 3-game win streak after that, but each win was in its own way a mistake-prone nail-biter against teams they should have handled fairly easily.
And yesterday’s loss against the Packers, not to take anything away from them— Love looks like he’s fixed his earlier pass accuracy problems, and looked practically SB-caliber, and the team as a whole played great. But the Lions made far too many mistakes and just looked inept. And I’m starting to wonder again about Campbell the Gamble’s decision making. Yeah, it’s easy to appreciate his ‘boldness’ when they go for it on 4th down and get the first, and blame him for a poor call when they fail, but 4 failed ‘go for it’ attempts on 4th down yesterday, plus a faked punt at their own 25 with 5 yards needed for a first down that failed miserably and set up an easy TD for the Packers? Someone needs to remind Campbell that punting can, occasionally at least, be an acceptable strategy. I know he was trying to get a spark going, but holy heck.
At this rate, they’ll likely still stumble into the playoffs, but get knocked right out in the first round by a team that really wants it and deserves to be there.
Just the continual, annual misery of being a Lions fan, I guess. They fool you into thinking they might actually be really good, then surprise! They’re the same old mediocrity they’ve always been. Maybe they should be renamed the Detroit Catfishes.
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### Author:  [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2023, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/18 "2023-11-24T14:57:11Z")
> [@Atamasama](#):
>
> I guess “roughing the passer” has a Seattle exception.
I realize I’m picking a nit here, but ‘roughing the passer’ can only be called when the quarterback actually throws a pass.
Now, could a personal foul have been called on that play? Certainly, and probably should have been called.
> **[San Francisco's season-high SIXTH sack sends Smith's helmet flying](https://www.nfl.com/videos/san-francisco-s-season-high-sixth-sack-sends-smith-s-helmet-flying)**
>
> The San Francisco 49ers season-high sixth sack against the Seattle Seahawks sends quarterback Geno Smith's helmet flying.
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### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2023, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/19 "2023-11-24T16:22:12Z")
In the wake of getting blown out by the Cowboys last night, the Commanders have fired defensive coordinator Jack Del Rio and defensive back coach Brent Vieselmeyer; head coach Ron Rivera will be taking over Del Rio’s duties for the remainder of the season.
The Commanders are ranked near the bottom of the league in most team defense stats, haven’t had an interception in their last six games, and haven’t forced a turnover of any kind in the last three games. It likely doesn’t help that they dealt away their two starting defensive ends (Montez Sweat and Chase Young) at the trade deadline.
Josh Harris, the team’s new owner, has been saying that he didn’t want to make any changes to the team’s leadership until after this season, but rumors are that there’ll be a bigger house-cleaning once the season ends.
> **[Commanders fire Del Rio after Cowboys blowout](https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38969428/commanders-fire-dc-jack-del-rio-blowout-loss-cowboys)**
>
> The Commanders have fired defensive coordinator Jack Del Rio and defensive backs coach Brent Vieselmeyer as the team has slid to last in the NFL in points allowed this season.
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### Author:  [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2023, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/20 "2023-11-24T16:47:47Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#):
>
> Josh Harris, the team’s new owner, has been saying that he didn’t want to make any changes to the team’s leadership until after this season, but rumors are that there’ll be a bigger house-cleaning once the season ends.
Rivera will absolutely be at the top of the coaching carousel thread at the end of the season. I assume if they were going to make a mid season head coach decision, it would have been today as the Commanders have a very late bye this season.
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