# NFL 2023: Week 12 men who have walked on the moon
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536
**Category:** The Game Room
**Tags:** football-nfl
**Created:** [November 22, 2023, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536 "2023-11-22T15:47:37Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 5
### Author:  [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2023, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/81 "2023-11-27T14:43:44Z")
> [@Clawdio](#):
>
> AFC south is a quagmire of mediocrity (no surprise here)
Did you mean NFC south?
AFC South has the Jaguars, who are tied for second for the best record in the AFC, and the Colts and Texans, who are both surprisingly in the playoff hunt.
Whereas the NFC South has no teams above .500, (the 5-6 Falcons lead the division), and only one team (Saints) have scored more points than they’ve allowed. (+7).
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### Author:  [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2023, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/82 "2023-11-27T14:58:27Z")
> [@Railer13](#):
>
> > [@Clawdio](#):
> >
> > AFC south is a quagmire of mediocrity (no surprise here)
>
> Did you mean NFC south?
>
> AFC South has
Yeah, I was a bit surprised by this as well. Hard to judge what to expect from first year QBs and all, but Indy and Houston have already outperformed expectations for the year. Granted, those were low expectations, but 3 teams out of 4 still realistically being in the playoff hunt into December is not bad.
Of the 4 divisions, it’s the AFC East that appears to resemble a quagmire of mediocrity the most. The Pats are a dumpster fire and need some kind of change in management, the Jets are still the Jets, the Bills are somehow only 6-6 with a now veteran Josh Allen, and I guess the Dolphins might finally be good again but they keep giving people reasons to doubt.
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### Author:  [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2023, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/83 "2023-11-27T14:58:49Z")
> [@Loach](#):
>
> You can’t have a tight end be your only reliable target and achieve greatness.
He just won a Super Bowl last year exactly like that.
> [@Loach](#):
>
> Good teams will beat you without a good receiver corps.
Last year’s Chiefs went 14-3 and beat the Niners, the Bengals, and the Eagles.
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### Author:  [@Clawdio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clawdio)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2023, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/84 "2023-11-27T15:56:53Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#):
>
> > [@Railer13](#):
> >
> > > [@Clawdio](#):
> > >
> > > AFC south is a quagmire of mediocrity (no surprise here)
> >
> > Did you mean NFC south?
> >
> > AFC South has
>
> Yeah, I was a bit surprised by this as well. Hard to judge what to expect from first year QBs and all, but Indy and Houston have already outperformed expectations for the year. Granted, those were low expectations, but 3 teams out of 4 still realistically being in the playoff hunt into December is not bad.
Meh, i would agree that Jacksonville & Houston have shown promise, but still stand by the AFC South being mediocre on the basis that the team at the top, Jacksonville, isn’t on the same tier as the other AFC division leaders.
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### Author:  [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2023, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/85 "2023-11-27T15:57:18Z")
What a terrible situation here in Charlotte. Frank Reich is the first coach to get fired this year. The decision to trade up to take a tiny QB is going to haunt this franchise for years.
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### Author:  [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2023, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/86 "2023-11-27T16:33:18Z")
> [@Clawdio](#):
>
> but still stand by the AFC South being mediocre on the basis that the team at the top, Jacksonville, isn’t on the same tier as the other AFC division leaders.
Well, okay, but if you’re going to list mediocre divisions, you must include the NFC South. Jags have defeated both the Falcons and Saints this year. AFC South is 8-5 vs the NFC South.
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### Author:  [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2023, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/87 "2023-11-27T16:38:20Z")
> [@Railer13](#):
>
> Well, okay, but if you’re going to list mediocre divisions, you must include the NFC South.
But the NFC South isn’t mediocre. It’s bad.
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### Author:  [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2023, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/88 "2023-11-27T19:25:59Z")
> [@EllisDee](#):
>
> the NFC South isn’t mediocre. It’s bad.
Point taken!
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### Author:  [@Fear\_the\_Turtle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_the_Turtle)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2023, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/89 "2023-11-27T21:33:29Z")
> [@EllisDee](#):
>
> Which leads me to an unrelated question. Years ago I remember the rule was if the quarterback was out of the pocket, defenders could make contact with the receivers without it being pass interference. Similar to how it is when the pass is deflected. My question is, do I remember that correctly, and if so, is that still the rule? It’s not relevant to this discussion, really; just something I’m curious about.
They won’t call ‘Illegal Contact’ (the 5 yarder) if he’s out of the pocket and the ball isn’t in the air, but ‘Pass Interference’ is still a viable call if the ball has been thrown. I assume they will still call ‘Defensive Holding’ - otherwise it would be open season to just tackle the receivers.
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### Author:  [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2023, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/90 "2023-11-27T21:49:33Z")
> [@Loach](#):
>
> He just can’t throw and catch the ball.
He can, and he has!
[ ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09iGrIY-bMA)
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### Author:  [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2023, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/91 "2023-11-28T02:48:45Z")
Not just was he the first coach fired this year, he is only the third NFL coach to be fired from two different teams in back-to-back seasons. The other two were Chip Kelly (fired from the Eagles in 2015, San Francisco in 2016) and Ray Rhodes (fired from Philadelphia in 1998, and during the next season by Green Bay in 2000).
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### Author:  [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2023, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/92 "2023-11-28T03:21:12Z")
This Bears-Vikings game might be the worst thing I’ve seen all season.
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### Author:  [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2023, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/93 "2023-11-28T04:00:34Z")
> [@Hamlet](#):
>
> > [@Loach](#):
> >
> > You can’t have a tight end be your only reliable target and achieve greatness.
>
> He just won a Super Bowl last year exactly like that.
>
> > [@Loach](#):
> >
> > Good teams will beat you without a good receiver corps.
>
> Last year’s Chiefs went 14-3 and beat the Niners, the Bengals, and the Eagles.
They are in worse shape this year. No JuJu. Toney came in and contributed. He isn’t this year and didn’t play this week. Hardman down this week and not doing well this year. Rice seems to be shaping up to be a good player. Overall they look to be worse than last year. I haven’t watched every game but I’ve seen a lot of drops this year.
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### Author:  [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2023, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/94 "2023-11-28T04:04:23Z")
> [@Loach](#):
>
> Overall they look to be worse than last year.
One huge difference this year is the fact that they have one of the league’s best defenses. Whether that will be enough to carry them remains to be seen.
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### Author:  [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2023, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/95 "2023-11-28T04:42:15Z")
It was like the Bears defense vs the Bears offense. Four interceptions beats two fumbles.
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### Author:  [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2023, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/96 "2023-11-28T13:36:22Z")
That was as ugly a football game as I’ve seen in awhile. Yuck.
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### Author:  [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2023, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/97 "2023-11-28T14:31:07Z")
> [@Southern\_Yankee](#):
>
> Frank Reich is the first coach to get fired this year.
> [@Superdude](#):
>
> Not just was he the first coach fired this year,
Oh, how quickly we forgot you, Josh McDaniels…
> **[Raiders coaching change: A 'vicious' team meeting 'broke' Josh McDaniels...](https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/raiders-coaching-change-a-vicious-team-meeting-broke-josh-mcdaniels-before-his-firing-per-reports/)**
>
> A look inside Las Vegas' staff overhaul
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### Author:  [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2023, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/98 "2023-11-28T14:38:07Z")
I appreciate the correction, but I was going off of @Southern_Yankee ’s comments.
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### Author:  [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2023, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/99 "2023-11-28T14:41:22Z")
Indeed, which Is why I also quoted him right above you…
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### Author:  [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2023, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/100 "2023-11-28T14:55:46Z")
🤦🏻
Can’t believe I missed that.
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