# NFL 2023: Week 12 men who have walked on the moon
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536
**Category:** The Game Room
**Tags:** football-nfl
**Created:** [November 22, 2023, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536 "2023-11-22T15:47:37Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 6
### Author:  [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2023, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/101 "2023-11-28T16:18:58Z")
Harsh evaluation of the Panthers, particularly owner David Tepper.
> They say that genius thrives in disorder – or something along those lines. But that presupposes the person has some idea of what they’re doing or where they’re trying to go. Tepper does not.
> …You pick the owner, not the franchise. And no coach should pick Tepper – not now, tomorrow, or ever.
> **[Dysfunction, firings and a meddling owner: who would coach the Panthers?](https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/nov/28/carolina-panthers-head-coach-david-tepper-frank-reich-nfl-football)**
>
> David Tepper has ditched two head coaches in two seasons. Anyone with any sense will steer clear of his troubled franchise
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### Author:  [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2023, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/102 "2023-11-28T16:27:57Z")
Not that I disagree with the analysis - Tepper seems like the prototypical micro-managing meddling owner but without any real football or front office acumen to back it up, but it’s an idiotic conclusion to say candidates should steer clear. The NFL isn’t professional soccer.
It’s not like NFL coaching jobs are in great supply or that there are a ton of viable lower level head coaching gigs to fall back on while waiting for another chance at the bigs. There’s going to be several somebodies who (probably rightly) think it is worth the tremendous risk to get this chance, even if it most likely means being out of a job in less than a year and having to deal with an owner forcing several decisions on you.
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### Author:  [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2023, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/103 "2023-11-28T17:33:24Z")
So are the Panthers going to take the place of least functional team after the shakeup in Houston, or will it be the Raiders?
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### Author:  [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2023, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/104 "2023-11-28T18:00:10Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#):
>
> Not that I disagree with the analysis - Tepper seems like the prototypical micro-managing meddling owner but without any real football or front office acumen to back it up, but it’s an idiotic conclusion to say candidates should steer clear.
I dunno. Who do you think is better positioned for the next coaching job - Reich, who now has the stink of a 1-10 season on him, or Ben Johnson (Detroit OC) who turned down the Panthers job?
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### Author:  [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2023, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/105 "2023-11-28T18:14:38Z")
I’m not referring to established coaches or star candidates. They are in the rare position of having some choice.
But besides them, there are literally hundreds of coaches in the trenches who aren’t known except to a small circle of other coaches or perhaps superfans. They have have very few chances to really get their names out there or get any experience in the game (and it’s very much a game) of either applying for these high profile gigs directly or getting involved with a candidate who is.
They’re ill served by the advice to “pick the owner, not the franchise”. It’d be wonderful if that were not the case, but that’s not the world we live in.
That’s one of the ways you can tell the author is a well researched Brit rather than American - they think of it as a single job. A professional soccer team will have 3 (?) coaches and there will be more available teams/lower leagues to fall back on. An NFL team will have a whole ecosystem of coaches. Any HC candidate is going to be asked who they would think about approaching for OC/DC and other key position coaches and any candidate worth their salt will already have dozens of names floating in their head for that purpose.
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### Author:  [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2023, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/106 "2023-11-28T20:54:17Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#):
>
> The NFL isn’t professional soccer.
Tepper has an MLS expansion franchise that joined that league in 2022. He’s fired three head coaches so far.
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### Author:  [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2023, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/107 "2023-11-28T20:57:42Z")
Wow, well then it’s a real contest to see who is the worst owner in the league now that Dan Snyder is out of the picture.
Tepper has the edge on managerial incompetence but Irsay is trying to make up for that by being an awful human being. And there’s always nepo babies Mark Davis and Cal McNair who have come within one or two bad decisions (and quotes) from running away with the “prize” but may be out of the running through a combination of luck and …well, luck
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### Author:  [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2023, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/108 "2023-11-28T21:27:40Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#):
>
> And there’s always nepo babies Mark Davis and Cal McNair who have come within one or two bad decisions (and quotes) from running away with the “prize” but may be out of the running through a combination of luck and …well, luck
I dunno, I give Mark Davis the edge due to his hairstyle.
[/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/70205500/1355189508.0.jpg) ](https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/ejKcSzAglJVSNhJMTZnhklWOfU4=/0x0:5486x3658/1200x800/filters:focal(2305x1391:3181x2267)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/70205500/1355189508.0.jpg)
Yikes!!!
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### Author:  [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2023, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/109 "2023-11-28T21:47:58Z")
Ya know, I’d almost accuse him of wearing a hairpiece …but who’d actually wear something that looks like that and then smile after realizing good money went to it?
Geez. He ought to sue his barber
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### Author:  [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2023, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/110 "2023-11-28T21:53:03Z")
Last I heard, he pays hundreds of dollars for that hair. Intentionally.
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### Author:  [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2023, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/111 "2023-11-28T22:14:46Z")
The _New York Post_ investigated.
> **[The truth behind Mark Davis’ terrible haircut is quite shocking](https://nypost.com/2021/09/22/the-truth-behind-mark-davis-terrible-haircut-is-quite-shocking/)**
>
> Las Vegas Raiders owner Mark Davis has been one of the most scrutinized owners in the NFL over the years – and his haircut hasn’t helped his case.
> “I just blow dry it and it ends up like this. I don’t really have to comb it,” Davis said. “It’s not [my barber’s] fault with the hair. I force her to do it.”
For a longer article…
> **[Oakland Raiders owner is worth $500 million and still uses a 2003 Nokia phone...](https://www.businessinsider.com/raiders-owner-mark-davis-bowl-cut-mini-van-2017-1)**
>
> Mark Davis spends every morning at P.F. Chang's, drives a tricked-out 1997 Dodge Caravan SE, and really loves his Oakland Raiders.
> Regarding the bowl cut, Keown writes that Davis travels more than 400 miles from his home in northern California to Palm Springs just to get it cut at the same barber:
>
> "In perfect Davis family fashion, it’s a middle finger to convention. Davis travels to Palm Desert to get it cut, just as he traveled to Chico from Oakland to visit a preferred barber long after he left college at Chico State. “I think he’s had three barbers since college,” [former Raiders WR Cliff] Branch says. “If he likes something, he stays loyal.”
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### Author:  [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2023, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/112 "2023-11-28T22:30:02Z")
Well, ok then
If he’s satisfied with it and it’s what he’s been doing for years, whatever. It’s not to my taste, but how the man wants to groom his hair is his own business
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### Author:  [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2023, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/113 "2023-11-28T22:57:36Z")
From the quoted article:
> [@](#):
>
> I think he’s had three barbers since college,
What’s wrong with that? I also have had three barbers since college. I thought barber loyalty was a normal thing.
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### Author:  [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)
#### Post date: [November 29, 2023, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/114 "2023-11-29T00:01:13Z")
> [@EllisDee](#):
>
> What’s wrong with that? I also have had three barbers since college. I thought barber loyalty was a normal thing.
When I lived on Guam as a teenager, I used to go to the Navy Exchange and get my hair cut by the same lady every time. Then I moved back to the US, and a few years later found out she’d moved to a nearby town. (Not that much of a coincidence when you know how the US Navy works; heck, one of my 7th grade classmates in the US was later a classmate of mine in 9th grade on Guam by chance.) So for years after that she cut my hair. She even moved from salon to salon, and I just went wherever she moved to. Finally, she moved to live with relatives in Hawaii. So I understand loyalty to a barber. It’s nice to just sit down and get your hair cut without having to explain anything.
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### Author:  [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)
#### Post date: [November 29, 2023, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/115 "2023-11-29T17:24:32Z")
In case you haven’t seen it yet.
[https://twitter.com/NicholasMoreano/status/1729657415988076573](https://twitter.com/NicholasMoreano/status/1729657415988076573)
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### Author:  [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)
#### Post date: [November 29, 2023, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/116 "2023-11-29T18:34:48Z")
> [@Omniscient](#):
>
> In case you haven’t seen it yet.
It’s clear from that clip that the Viking player committed a foul but from an official’s perspective watching in real time it probably looks like Gordon shoved him out of bounds and threw him down. It’s one where the officials got it wrong but they probably couldn’t help it.
It would be nice if the NFL acknowledges what happened and should fine Powell for the violence. That’s not acceptable behavior for a player.
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### Author:  [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)
#### Post date: [November 29, 2023, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/117 "2023-11-29T18:57:13Z")
> [@Atamasama](#):
>
> It’s one where the officials got it wrong but they probably couldn’t help it.
Or, you know, they could expand replay to determine exactly what happened and then make the correct call.
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### Author:  [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)
#### Post date: [November 29, 2023, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/118 "2023-11-29T20:30:02Z")
Ideally yes. They can’t do it on every play but it would be nice. I personally really hate when they get things wrong.
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### Author:  [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)
#### Post date: [November 29, 2023, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/119 "2023-11-29T20:39:24Z")
Everyone hates it when the officiating is wrong. But it’s going to happen on occasion. Unless we want 6 hour games where every play is reviewed for every possible penalty, there are going to be officiating errors. And even more really close calls that could go either way. It’s the nature of the game.
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### Author:  [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)
#### Post date: [November 29, 2023, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-12-men-who-have-walked-on-the-moon/993536/120 "2023-11-29T21:11:01Z")
> [@Hamlet](#):
>
> Unless we want 6 hour games where every play is reviewed for every possible penalty, there are going to be officiating errors.
Exactly.
I’d love it if they could get everything perfect but they can’t review every play.
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