# NFL 2023: Week 15 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** football-nfl\ **Created:** [December 13, 2023, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-15/994557 "2023-12-13T15:22:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-15/994557/101 "2023-12-19T17:51:50Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > I can only imaging the second half of that phone call. Accents, yelling, very few actual words. Arms/hands waving wildly at both ends. I once told our secretary over in Italy that the other person on the call can’t see her passionate gestures. She emphatically corrected me, “Oh yes he can!!” ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-15/994557/102 "2023-12-19T20:35:36Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > But way to milk this marginal amount of fame for every penny its worth, I guess. Nonsense. NY fans have, after a couple starts where he wasnt horrible, given their unproven rookie QB a cool nickname, declared him to be the next big thing, and know he will clearly outperform whatever other older QB they have on their roster. Wait. Are we talking about Danny Dimes or Tommy Cutlets? ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-15/994557/103 "2023-12-19T21:30:55Z")
The Green Bay Packers - making also-rans into highly paid “franchise quarterbacks”, one team at a time. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2023, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-15/994557/104 "2023-12-20T00:00:15Z")
To his credit, or his publicists at least, Tommy shows up and does the appearance for free. Good for him. > **[DeVito makes good, shows up at pizzeria after tiff](https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39149640/tommy-devito-makes-unpaid-appearance-pizzeria-tiff)** > > Giants quarterback Tommy DeVito made good on an apparent appearance at a New Jersey-based pizzeria after the restaurant announced it had to cancel the event due to the appearance fee getting doubled. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2023, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-15/994557/105 "2023-12-20T02:33:18Z")
Drew Lock was definitely one of the more divisive draft prospects, he seemed to slot into that super hate-able category of athletes with his time in the NFL. That said, if you watch his postgame interview from last night, I think it’s tough not to root for the guy. [Drew Lock gets emotional after Seahawks’ dramatic win: ‘It’s been a long time’ 🙏 | NFL on ESPN - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOuIZVuJGb0) ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2023, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-15/994557/106 "2023-12-20T02:58:49Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > That said, if you watch his postgame interview from last night, I think it’s tough not to root for the guy. He is incredibly likable and genuine. Reminds me of Josh Allen, though not as charismatic. I also like that he seems to have a real friendship with Geno Smith. You don’t see that a lot with two guys trying to have the same job. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2023, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-15/994557/107 "2023-12-20T03:35:18Z")
Lock seemed like he was a bit Johnny Manziel-ish when he was in college, very talented but also too immature. But he’s more likable than Manziel. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2023, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-15/994557/108 "2023-12-20T14:45:26Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > But he’s more likable than Manziel. I just flushed something that is more likable than Manziel. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2023, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-15/994557/109 "2023-12-20T14:46:55Z")
According to [this article](https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/how-eagles-still-control-own-destiny-to-win-nfc-east-despite-trailing-cowboys-in-standings-entering-week-16/), if they both win out, the Eagles win the division, but it does go down to strength-of-victory - basically, the Eagles wins over the Chiefs & Bills put them over the top - the Cowboys didn’t play the Chiefs, and lost to the Bills. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2023, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-15/994557/110 "2023-12-20T17:19:15Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > but it does go down to strength-of-victory Good find. I had done the mental calculations and reached the same conclusion, but this article spelled it out nicely. Having said that, I think the Eagles will win out (Giants, Cardinals, Giants), but the Cowboys have a much tougher schedule (Dolphins, Lions, Commanders). ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2023, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-15/994557/111 "2023-12-20T17:46:37Z")
Strength of Victory is the combined winning percentage of the teams that a team beat. There are three games left for all teams so those percentages will change. _As of today_ the Eagles have a better strength of victory. That could change. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2023, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-15/994557/112 "2023-12-20T18:09:04Z")
It can’t change enough to get the Cowboys ahead. According to the article, the opponents the Eagles have have beaten have a combined record of 69-71. The opponents the Cowboys have beaten have a combined record of 53-87. Assuming they both win out, the result is: Both Beat: Pats Commanders x 2 Rams Dolphins Giants x 2 Eagles Beat: Bucs Vikings Cowboys Chiefs Bills Cardinals Cowboys Beat: Jets Chargers Panthers Seahawks Eagles Lions Since they’re both winning out, and they each beat other once, those last 3 games for each team would change the totals to 72-71 and 56-87. What the teams that they both beat do doesn’t matter, it affects both SoV statistics the same, so I’m ignoring it. If all the teams the Eagles had uniquely beaten were to lose out, their total would become 72-86 - 0 wins, 15 losses for the 5 teams. If all the teams the Cowboys beat uniquely were to win out - except the Lions, because they’re one of the teams they have to beat in the last 3 weeks - their total would become 70-88, 1 win, 14 losses for the 5 teams. So the SoV parameter favors the Eagles no matter what happens in the rest of the league. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2023, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-15/994557/113 "2023-12-20T18:11:44Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > _As of today_ the Eagles have a better strength of victory. That could change. It will change, but those two teams played the same teams, except for the Eagles beating the Chiefs, while the Cowboys beat the Chargers. Those two games will probably make the difference. New thread here: [NFL 2023: Week 16 - The Game Room - Straight Dope Message Board](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-16/994895) ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2023, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-15/994557/114 "2023-12-20T18:21:42Z")
Gotcha. I know it rarely (if ever before) comes down to that but what a weird stat. Say there are two one loss teams that played the same other teams. The one who lost to a shitty team will beat one who lost to a great team. ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2023, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-15/994557/115 "2023-12-20T18:21:58Z")
If the Cowboys beat the Dolphins, Lions, and Commanders in their last three games, their Strength of Vocitry would increase, while the Eagles play the Giants (2x) and Cards, so their Strength of VIctory will go down. It would come down to how well their opponents do in their other games. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2023, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-15/994557/116 "2023-12-20T18:29:50Z")
Hmm, yeah, I just realized I wasn’t accounting for the fact that the statistics from the article don’t account for the upcoming 3 theoretical victories for each team. Give me a few minutes and I’ll redo my math. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2023, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-15/994557/117 "2023-12-20T18:42:50Z")
If you guys want to jump to the new thread, I just posted a longish post about this tiebreaker. Feel free to critique my logic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-15/994557.md?page=5)