# NFL 2023: Week 17 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** football-nfl\ **Created:** [December 27, 2023, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234 "2023-12-27T15:23:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Jegpeg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jegpeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jegpeg)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/41 "2023-12-29T19:33:02Z")
Would the Browns be able to afford to keep Flacco, especially if he plays well post season? He has at least as much leverage as Geno did last season. There are plenty of QB needy teams that would be willing to pay at least $25m-$30m for a one year deal. With Watson taking up $64m they would has about 40% of their cap spent on the QB position. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/42 "2023-12-29T20:57:30Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > Browns are 11-5 with one to play, a road game at the Bengals. > Ravens are 10-3 with two to play, home games against the Fins and Steelers. > Dolphins are 11-4 with two to play, road game at Baltimore and a home game against the Bills. Ravens are 12-3, just FYI. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/43 "2023-12-29T21:27:05Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Ravens are 12-3 Duh, of course. Bad typing and proofreading. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2023, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/44 "2023-12-30T22:31:37Z")
I don’t understand why CJ Stroud isn’t in discussion for MVP. Is it really just “the QB of the best team” every year? That Houston team would be hot flaming 3-win ass without him. He’s single handedly dragging his team up like 5 or 6 wins, and how in the world can that not constitute MVP? The 49ers and the Ravens would not be garbage without their QBs (or McCaffery) but Houston would be garbage without Stroud. I think Stefanski should probably be a shoe-in for coach of the year, but who knows. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2023, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/45 "2023-12-30T22:43:20Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I don’t understand why CJ Stroud isn’t in discussion for MVP. Right now he’s by far and away the favorite to win the offensive rookie of the year. But for MVP, he’s not listed in the top 15, odds-wise. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2023, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/46 "2023-12-30T22:57:42Z")
I can’t see any rational reason for that. It must just be “a rookie can’t win MVP” ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2023, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/47 "2023-12-30T23:24:25Z")
He’s 10th in passing yardage. He’s tied for 11th in TD passes. He’s 7-6 as a starter. These stats may be why he’s not under consideration. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2023, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/48 "2023-12-30T23:29:49Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Is it really just “the QB of the best team” every year? That Houston team would be hot flaming 3-win ass without him. He’s single handedly dragging his team up like 5 or 6 wins, and how in the world can that not constitute MVP? In a world in which “Most Valuable Player” is defined as you suggest (i.e., the single player whose absence from a team would have made the team far worse), then, yeah, Stroud should be in the conversation. But, as you note, it really is, for the most part, “a very good QB on a strong playoff-caliber team” award these days. It’d take a truly titanic season-long performance\* from a player who isn’t on a 10+ win team to get a sniff, and as @Railer13 notes, Stroud’s numbers are good, but not amazing. \*- in 1997, Barry Sanders was co-MVP with Brett Favre; the Lions were a 9-7 team, third in the NFC Central, and lost in the first round of the playoffs, but Sanders had rushed for 2053 yards, with a 6.1 YPC average, which is crazy-good. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2023, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/49 "2023-12-30T23:47:15Z")
Here’s an article from a few weeks ago that makes a case for Tyreek Hill to be MVP. > **[Analysis: If a kicker once won the AP NFL MVP award, Tyreek Hill or another...](https://apnews.com/article/ap-nfl-mvp-hill-prescott-purdy-hurts-tagovailoa-jackson-mahomes-cd8c9f3fe2b2c9fca63a518e776f11c6)** > > Tyreek Hill’s record-breaking pace this season has led to a persistent question that’s become a hot topic on debate shows. Quarterbacks have won the MVP for the past 10 years. And in those 10 years, the MVP has been on a 1-seeded team 8 times, and on a 2-seeded team the other two times. The last non-qb to win the MVP was Adrian Peterson in 2012, running back for the Vikings. The Vikes were a 10-6 playoff team, but Peterson had 2,097 rushing yards. ---
**Author:** ![SwissMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e79b87/32.png) [@SwissMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SwissMan)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/50 "2023-12-31T01:24:01Z")
Fascinating piece of trivia at the start of the game tonight. Cowboys placekicker Brandon Aubrey opened the game with his 91st touchback on the season. That is apparently a new NFL record. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/51 "2023-12-31T02:18:19Z")
I don’t hate the Lions going for it, either of those times. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/52 "2023-12-31T02:28:15Z")
I half agree. After pulling off the fake punt, I think the Lions shouldn’t have tempted fate and tried to force it into the end zone on 4th down. Just take the easy 3 and get to within a point of the Cowboys. But, it’s easy to praise the gutsy calls that succeed and criticize the ones that fail. ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/53 "2023-12-31T02:32:12Z")
In what is shaping up to be a game dominated by the defenses, I’d take three sure points over going for the TD. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/54 "2023-12-31T02:36:31Z")
A good argument could be made either way. It’s still just a 4 point game going into the half. This is going to come down to someone making a big play late. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/55 "2023-12-31T03:22:34Z")
Okay not football related but that coat Zoe Saldana is wearing in that T-Mobile commercial, WTF is that? It looks like something out of that Woody Allen movie you know the one. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/56 "2023-12-31T03:34:35Z")
I don’t know the movie, but I like the way mirror Zoe tells IRL Zoe “you look like a marshmallow”. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/57 "2023-12-31T03:43:39Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I think Stefanski should probably be a shoe-in for coach of the year, but who knows. in a fair world, Campbell would get it. As noted, Houston owes a lot of their success this year to Stroud. But Detroit has turned around from a bottom-dwelling joke to an actual contender in two seasons, without some flashy new QB or WR. Their success is due to the culture Campbell has created. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/58 "2023-12-31T04:18:05Z")
Things are going swell for the Boys. They get a late interception deep in Lion territory around the 2 minute mark. Tack on a field goal to go up 7 and burn the Lion’s time outs. Goff march down the field and ties up the game - except they for for the win with multiple two point attempts and …fail. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/59 "2023-12-31T04:18:32Z")
I’m a Colts fan, but I think our coach Shane Steichen ought to be in consideration. He inherited a four-win team and has us in legitimate contention for a playoff spot, and he did it with the backup quarterback, and with Jonathan Taylor missing significant time due to contract issues. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/60 "2023-12-31T04:23:30Z")
Wow. Just classic snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Stupid procedural penalty. I agreed with the 4th down calls, even agreed with the first two 2-point conversion tries, but after that the tide had clearly turned. Just tie the game and take it to OT FFS! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234.md?page=4)