# NFL 2023: Week 17 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** football-nfl\ **Created:** [December 27, 2023, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234 "2023-12-27T15:23:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/81 "2023-12-31T16:27:04Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > In going for it, Campbell is telling his guys, _I believe in you_. He is saying, _this is yours, go get it_. > > There is value in that, even though it is not always going to go as you want it to. When the Lions played the Packers earlier this season, Campbell made several aggressive play calls (including a fake punt from deep in his own territory) which didn’t work, and which were big factors in the Lions losing that game. But, it’s clear that his aggressive style, and his complete faith in his team, has his players willing to run through walls for him, and that’s awesome to see. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/82 "2023-12-31T16:50:37Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Your logic here isn’t right at all. Going for it again doesn’t reduce the odds of scoring. Being further back from the end zone would, and not running their preferred play might. But you absolutely don’t multiply the numbers together to figure out how likely the newest attempt is. I’m aware of the Gambler’s Fallacy: “I’ve lost 10 coin flip calls in a row. This time my luck’s bound to change!” No, each time is 50% odds, no matter what happened before. But this is a _single situation_ case where the Lions needed to convert successfully both times in order to get the 2 points. Assuming each individual attempt is 50% odds, would that not then result in 50% x 50% = 25% odds? In other words, you have to successfully call a coin flip twice to win; otherwise you lose. Would your odds of doing that not be 25%? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/83 "2023-12-31T16:55:21Z")
No, the first coin flip was already decided. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/84 "2023-12-31T17:17:16Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I hope the league puts out a statement of some kind because this absolutely affected the outcome of this game and fans expect and deserve an explanation. Holy shit, you could say the NFL put out a statement all right. > **[NFL Has Demoted Brad Allen's Officiating Crew After Controversial Penalty...](https://dailysnark.com/2023/12/31/nfl-has-demoted-brad-allens-officiating-crew-after-controversial-penalty-during-cowboys-lions-game/)** > > The referees from the Cowboys-Lions game on Saturday night called a controversial penalty on Lions’ Taylor Decker that will have a heavy impact on the NFC playoffs as it knocked the Lions out of contention for the No. 1 seed and it kept the Cowboys... Were I a Lions fan I’d be so pissed. Daily Snark does satire but this seems legit. > **[Schefter: Brad Allen's Referee Crew Expected to Get Downgraded for 2024 NFL...](https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10103081-schefter-brad-allens-referee-crew-expected-to-get-downgraded-for-2024-nfl-playoffs.amp.html)** > > Official Brad Allen's referee crew was a major storyline in yet another primetime NFL game this season when the Dallas Cowboys defeated the Detroit Lions, and… I didn’t realize his crew was the one that earlier this year had a crucial no call when a Packer was playing piggy back on a Chief during a pass attempt. > More info: > **[NFL refs under scrutiny over multiple non-PI calls](https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39075242/nfl-officiating-crew-scrutiny-missed-calls)** > > The officiating crew that did not call a blatant pass interference penalty during the Chiefs-Packers game missed a similar call one week earlier in Atlanta. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/85 "2023-12-31T17:31:42Z")
It’s at least the 3rd (4th?) potentially game-deciding bad call they’ve made this season alone. Heck, it’s basically the 3rd made in the last 5 weeks alone. And yet another made in a primetime game. I guess I’m theoretically glad the NFL is taking it seriously, but it feels very much ‘too little, too late’ when poor officiating has been noticeable all season ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/86 "2023-12-31T17:49:30Z")
At least MLB tried to fire Angel Hernandez. Worst penalty bad NFL officials get is time off from their second job during the playoffs. ---
**Author:** ![LoneRhino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lonerhino/32/1311_2.png) [@LoneRhino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LoneRhino)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/87 "2023-12-31T17:52:00Z")
He’s also telling his defense that he doesn’t believe in them. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/88 "2023-12-31T17:57:53Z")
Fair point. And I considered that angle. But showing trust in the offense to get it done _now_ is a stronger vote of confidence. It is more immediate. Put another way, interpret it as “I trust you all, but let’s get on this right now.” _Not_ giving the offense the opportunity to score says only one thing: I don’t think you can do it. mmm ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/89 "2023-12-31T18:00:12Z")
How does it say anything about the defense? The cowboys offense would get the ball regardless of they went for 1 or 2 and a fg wins in both situations. ---
**Author:** ![LoneRhino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lonerhino/32/1311_2.png) [@LoneRhino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LoneRhino)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/90 "2023-12-31T18:16:34Z")
It’s saying that I’m not going for the high percentage play and go into OT because the defense has no chance to stop Dallas. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/91 "2023-12-31T18:18:41Z")
[Ref’s answer is bullshit](https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/nfl-referee-brad-allen-s-explanation-for-controversial-lions-penalty-disputed-by-video/ar-AA1mhkyh?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=cf73b405bbfb41f9a0edb8dd135611cc&ei=43) > The NFL referee insists that Lions tackle Dan Skipper, and not tackle Taylor Decker, reported as eligible on a game-deciding two-point attempt Saturday night against the Cowboys, despite everyone on the Lions stating otherwise and an overhead camera showing Decker reporting to the referee before the play. Investigation should follow. I suspect bad things. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/92 "2023-12-31T18:19:35Z")
You don’t even know if the defense has to stop Dallas at that point. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/93 "2023-12-31T18:44:33Z")
I don’t understand all the rules for the line, but I think it was Aikmen who said that the play was invalid for a few reasons. (I for one was happy to see Detroit take over with that play.) Something about not being lined up opposite someone? Or something. Is there anything to that? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/94 "2023-12-31T18:50:32Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Something about not being lined up opposite someone? Or something. To be an eligible receiver, a player needs to do the following: 1. Be wearing a jersey number assigned for eligible receivers (1-49, 80-89), **or** have reported to the officials as an eligible receiver for the play 2. If lined up at the line of scrimmage, must be at one “end” of the team’s players at the line of scrimmage (i.e., if you’re on the right side of the line, you can’t have another offensive player “covering you up” by being further to the right of you, _and_ at the line of scrimmage) 3. Not be lined up “under center” (i.e., lined up as a T-formation quarterback, to take the snap directly from the center) If the play was invalid for a reason other than jersey number, it would have been because the guy wasn’t lined up at the end of the line (point 2). ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/95 "2023-12-31T18:57:07Z")
Just throwing out a suggestion-give these guys a big red Velcro dot or such they can put on the front of their uniform if an-otherwise ineligible player reports as eligible, so there’s no ambiguity for anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/96 "2023-12-31T19:13:08Z")
I think it’s time the league just did away with the requirement to report as eligible. They are expanding what numbers people can wear and I think it’s perfectly reasonable to ask the defense to infer who is eligible based on alignment. The whole thing feels like an anachronism. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/97 "2023-12-31T19:16:31Z")
Random thought as I sit here at the Bears game in the snow. Has anyone ever sat on those heated benches the teams use on the sidelines? I wonder how warm they are. Players are always acting tough by going sleeveless in the cold, but I bet these things are super toasty. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/98 "2023-12-31T19:23:19Z")
Fields is throwing some balls today, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/99 "2023-12-31T19:31:41Z")
Meh. The usual. Handful of nice plays to tease you and then a bunch of whiffs. Some great balls to Moore early, then he starts missing screen passes by 6 yards. Noticed he’s playing in gloves today. Don’t remember if he has done that before. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234/100 "2023-12-31T19:53:01Z")
If the Bears defeat the Falcons today, the door would be open for the Bucs to win the division with a victory over the Saints. Alas, the Saints lead the game 17-0 in the 3rd quarter, proving once again that nobody wants to win the NFC South. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-17/995234.md?page=6)