# NFL 2023: Week 18, the Final Chapter **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** football-nfl\ **Created:** [January 3, 2024, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-18-the-final-chapter/995563 "2024-01-03T21:42:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-18-the-final-chapter/995563/101 "2024-01-08T05:46:12Z")
I loved how the Giants player ran into that Eagles punter, who then did his best to fall to the turf, but the Giants player desperately held him up for a while longer so he couldn’t flop and draw a flag. ---
**Author:** ![gkster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gkster/32/14107_2.png) [@gkster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gkster)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-18-the-final-chapter/995563/102 "2024-01-08T06:11:49Z")
Props to Taylor Rapp of the Bills on his game-clinching interception! Here’s a quote from his wikipedia article: _[NFL.com](http://NFL.com)_ described Rapp as a player who has “beaten long odds, undeterred by a city that failed to support prep football, a high school community that openly mocked him, coaches who were unprepared to develop his talents, college recruiters who blatantly overlooked him and kids who racially taunted him for his Chinese ethnicity.” [Taylor Rapp - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor_Rapp#Early_years) ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-18-the-final-chapter/995563/103 "2024-01-08T06:56:26Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > the Giants player desperately held him up Yep, here it is: [https://old.reddit.com/r/sports/comments/1914w11/200iq\_play\_by\_cam\_brown\_to\_avoid\_a\_roughing\_the/](https://old.reddit.com/r/sports/comments/1914w11/200iq_play_by_cam_brown_to_avoid_a_roughing_the/) ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-18-the-final-chapter/995563/104 "2024-01-08T07:54:53Z")
I had a procedural question on the Bills last drive. With about 3 minutes left, they had a long 3rd down where Allen ran for the first. There was also defensive holding, which added 5 yards, but also stopped the clock. If Buffalo declined that penalty, would the clock run? In that situation the time is definitely worth more than the 5 yards. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-18-the-final-chapter/995563/105 "2024-01-08T07:58:22Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Because I can’t decide - is the Bears offensive line that bad or did the Packers front seven come to play today? They were atrocious today. But they’ve been really good for the last 8 weeks or so. There’s a couple factors. 1. Our crappy starting Center is out (Patrick) and Center has been a massive issue for this line for 2 years now. Dan fucking Feeney is in there and he’s neither a good OL nor a Center. There’s been a ton of pressure up the middle. 2. Our LG (Jenkins) who has looked like a Pro Bowler most of the season decided to completely shit the bed today. Couple possible reasons, he was hospitalized with a neck injury a couple weeks ago and landed in concussion protocol. He’s had a back surgery and recurring neck injuries since being drafted. Also, his wife gave birth this week, so who knows how that effected his prep and rest. 3. Our crystalline RG (Nate Davis) left the game with a foot injury after the first series of the game. Which pressed the decrepit Cody Whitehair into service, and Whitehair typically plays LG. 4. It’s Green Bay. When we play Green Bay our OL and DL are always awful and their OL and DL turns into a collection of hall of famers. It’s just one of those truths. We made Joe Berry look like Buddy Ryan today. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-18-the-final-chapter/995563/106 "2024-01-08T11:26:11Z")
> [@borschevsky](#): > > If Buffalo declined that penalty, would the clock run? In that situation the time is definitely worth more than the 5 yards. Buffalo did decline the penalty, choosing to take the result of the play instead. The clock will generally restart after a penalty (if it had been running prior to the flag), except in the last two minutes of the first half and the last five minutes of the game. This applies whether or not the penalty is accepted. Section 2, Article 2 of the NFL rulebook: (e) If the game clock is stopped after a down in which there was a foul by either team, following enforcement or declination of a penalty, the game clock will start as if the foul had not occurred, except that the clock will start on the snap if: 1. the foul occurs after the two-minute warning of the first half; 2. the foul occurs inside the last five minutes of the second half; or 3. the offense commits a foul after the ball is made ready for play, and causes the clock to stop before a snap, during the fourth quarter or overtime; or 4. a specific rule prescribes otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-18-the-final-chapter/995563/107 "2024-01-08T12:28:30Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > Rams @ Lions (Goff vs Stafford, against their former teams!) This is very interesting, and adds an extra layer of drama over what’s already pretty dramatic for us Lions fans-- just getting in the playoffs. Sorry Stafford, but this is one playoff game where i won’t be rooting for you. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-18-the-final-chapter/995563/108 "2024-01-08T15:15:58Z")
> [@gkster](#): > > Here’s a quote from his wikipedia article: It’s from this article on [NFL.com](http://NFL.com): > **[Cultural issue: How hard-hitting Taylor Rapp is smashing barriers](https://www.nfl.com/news/back-2-campus/taylor-made)** > > The official source for NFL news, video highlights, fantasy football, game-day coverage, schedules, stats, scores and more. And I fixed the Wikipedia article which had a broken link. ---
**Author:** ![Clawdio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d07c76/32.png) [@Clawdio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clawdio)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-18-the-final-chapter/995563/109 "2024-01-08T15:32:38Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Pittsburgh going to the playoffs is some lucky bullshit. Gotta be one of the worst wildcard teams ever. Don’t disagree that the Steelers making the playoffs is some lucky bullshit, but i would point out that they have 5 wins against 4 playoff teams this year - Baltimore (twice) , Cleveland, LA Rams, Green Bay. They also beat Cincinnati (twice), and Seattle who both finished the season with winning records. By comparison, the other wild card teams this year: **Miami** only beat 1 team (Dallas) that either made the playoffs or had a winning record. **Cleveland** beat 4 playoff teams - San Fran, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Houston. Plus wins against Indianapolis & Jacksonville who had winning records. **Philadelphia** beat 6 playoff teams, but also finished the season losing 5 of their last 6. **Green Bay** beat 3 playoff teams - LA Rams, Detroit, KC, plus New Orleans **LA Rams** beat two playoff teams - Cleveland & San Fran, plus wins against Seattle (twice), Indianapolis, and New Orleans. So the Steelers resume is pretty much on par with (if not better than) all the other wild card teams this year, let alone “ever”. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-18-the-final-chapter/995563/110 "2024-01-08T16:10:31Z")
Man, going into yesterday’s Lions game, I was sweating an injury to one of the starters. I don’t know why Campbell didn’t rest more of them. Looks like I had reason to sweat. [Sam LaPorta, while likely avoiding a major long-term ACL injury, will probably not be ready to play in Sunday’s matchup against LA.](https://www.prideofdetroit.com/2024/1/8/24029602/discussion-how-should-detroit-lions-replace-sam-laporta) They don’t call him Dan Gamble for nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-18-the-final-chapter/995563/111 "2024-01-08T16:21:39Z")
Yesterday the Saints beat the Falcons 48-17. With about 90 seconds remaining, Tyrann Mathieu of the Saints intercepted a pass at his own 25 yard line and took off for the other end zone for an apparent pick-six touchdown. He started showboating towards the end of his run and, as a result, got tackled at the 1-yard line. The Saints coach sent the offense on the field with instructions to kneel a couple of times to run out the clock. However, the players decided that running back Jamaal Williams deserved to score his first and only touchdown of the year. So they gave the ball to Williams and he scored the TD. The Falcons coach, Arthur Smith, was understandably pissed and could be seen yelling at Saints coach Dennis Allen after the game. Allen was apologetic and said that the play-call was not acceptable. Smith, by the way, was fired last night after 3 7-10 seasons in Atlanta. ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-18-the-final-chapter/995563/112 "2024-01-08T16:40:37Z")
Black Monday: The Washington Commanders have fired coach Ron Rivera, after four seasons where the team went 26 - 40 - 1, with one playoff appearance (in 2020 after winning the NFC east with a 7-9 record). ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-18-the-final-chapter/995563/113 "2024-01-08T16:45:11Z")
FYI, I started a Black Monday thread here: > [@NFL Black Monday 2024 thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-black-monday-2024-thread/995750/6): > > Not a coach, but Panthers GM Scott Fitterer was [fired](https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39264892/panthers-fire-gm-scott-fitterer-following-2-15-season). Unfortunately, no one can fire their owner. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-18-the-final-chapter/995563/114 "2024-01-08T17:25:32Z")
Good storylines. Goff and Stafford going against their former teams. McCarthy facing his old team. Tyreek Hill facing his old team. Lions trying to get their first playoff win in 32 years. Browns and Texans both have a shot at advancing to their first conference title game in franchise history. (the Browns meaning the new Browns, the ones that started in 1998) ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-18-the-final-chapter/995563/115 "2024-01-08T17:30:10Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > Yesterday the Saints beat the Falcons 48-17. With about 90 seconds remaining, Tyrann Mathieu of the Saints intercepted a pass at his own 25 yard line and took off for the other end zone for an apparent pick-six touchdown. He started showboating towards the end of his run and, as a result, got tackled at the 1-yard line. > > The Saints coach sent the offense on the field with instructions to kneel a couple of times to run out the clock. However, the players decided that running back Jamaal Williams deserved to score his first and only touchdown of the year. So they gave the ball to Williams and he scored the TD. > > The Falcons coach, Arthur Smith, was understandably pissed and could be seen yelling at Saints coach Dennis Allen after the game. Allen was apologetic and said that the play-call was not acceptable. According to Jameis Winston, the play call was for a kneeldown. It was the players themselves, not Dennis Allen or his OC, who decided to get Williams a TD. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-18-the-final-chapter/995563/116 "2024-01-08T17:45:42Z")
And they ran it _out if the victory formation_ making it extra cheap. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-18-the-final-chapter/995563/117 "2024-01-08T18:01:15Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > Buffalo did decline the penalty, choosing to take the result of the play instead. No, the penalty was accepted. It’s applied at the end of the run. I looked it up in the ESPN play-by-play to be sure. > 3rd & 13 at BUF 34 (3:12 - 4th) (Shotgun) J.Allen scrambles right end to BUF 49 for 15 yards (C.Wilkins). PENALTY on MIA-J.Ramsey, Defensive Holding, 5 yards, enforced at BUF 49. > 1st & 10 at MIA 46 (3:04 - 4th) D.Edwards reported in as eligible. L.Fournette left guard to MIA 47 for -1 yards (E.Ogbah). Thanks for looking up the rule. If I’m understanding correctly, had there been no penalty, Buffalo would have snapped 1st-and-10 from their 49 with about 2:25 remaining. Instead, the penalty stops the clock, so they snapped 1st-and-10 from the Miami 46 with 3:04 remaining. That seems like the penalty against Miami benefits Miami, because the time is worth more than the yards in that situation. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-18-the-final-chapter/995563/118 "2024-01-08T19:09:13Z")
Eh, I’m a fan of cheapness and pettiness in sports (up to a certain extent). Fake kneel-downs and touchdown passes are just the thing. Makes it more entertaining. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-18-the-final-chapter/995563/119 "2024-01-08T19:15:19Z")
> [@borschevsky](#): > > That seems like the penalty against Miami benefits Miami, because the time is worth more than the yards in that situation. Sometimes penalties are worth it. Like if you get beat and the receiver looks like they’re getting a TD with a reception, you blatantly interfere and draw a flag. Just like an intentional safety, the “wrong” thing might be the right thing in the right situation. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-18-the-final-chapter/995563/120 "2024-01-08T19:15:33Z")
Yeah, that’s the part that’s going to come back to haunt the Saints. Remember Greg Schiano and his teams diving into victory formations? Welcome to the future for New Orleans. Fake spikes? Go for it! Fake kneeldowns are how you get the next guys hurt. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-18-the-final-chapter/995563.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-18-the-final-chapter/995563.md?page=7)