# NFL 2023: WEEK TEN Amendments **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** football-nfl\ **Created:** [November 10, 2023, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-ten-amendments/992962 "2023-11-10T22:23:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-ten-amendments/992962/61 "2023-11-15T06:49:40Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > the Broncos running their kicking team on at the last second. The Broncos ran their kicking team on the field as soon as the play was whistled dead, not ‘the last second’. And it was obvious they were going to do so. I can’t locate the actual rule, but I believe there is a ‘waiver’ to the substitution rule for the last two minutes of each half, for precisely the reason in last night’s game. I’ve never seen the umpire stand over the ball and not allow a snap when a placekicker has come into the offensive lineup. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-ten-amendments/992962/62 "2023-11-15T08:04:11Z")
That’s what the rule says, but we’ve definitely seen games where time expired because an umpire was standing over the center waiting for the defense to get ready before allowing the snap of a ball. There’s some nuance here that I don’t get. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-ten-amendments/992962/63 "2023-11-15T08:24:41Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > There’s some nuance here that I don’t get. > **[2023 NFL Rulebook | NFL Football Operations](https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-rulebook/#article-10-defensive-matchups-following-substitutions)** > > Explore the official 2023 NFL rulebook. > 1. The Umpire will stand over the ball until the Referee deems that the defense has had a reasonable time to complete its substitutions. > The quick-snap rule does not apply after the two-minute warning of either half, or if there is not a substitution by the offense. So two things are at play here. First, throughout the game it’s at the Referee’s discretion as to whether the defense has had a “reasonable” amount of time to substitute following an offense’s substitution. That’s the main nuance. It’s situational and subjective. When the Referee has the Umpire sitting over the ball to make the offense wait, that’s because that’s what the Referee determines to be appropriate. When it’s not happening, the Referee figures the defense has had enough time to respond already. In addition, if the two minute warning has expired in either half then there is no “quick-snap” rule, presumably because the offense might try to squeeze every second before the end of the half. And the play in question was in the waning seconds of the game, so this particular exception was already in effect. If time in the game expired because the Umpire was sitting over the ball following a substitution, then I’m not sure what the deal is. Per the rules, that shouldn’t be happening, as far as I can tell. Can you cite a recent time this actually happened in a game, or is this just going by a vague memory? Particularly before a field goal attempt? ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-ten-amendments/992962/64 "2023-11-15T08:39:53Z")
Unfortunately I can’t recall a specific instance. It’s not the easiest thing to Google. I’m like 95% sure that the Bears ended a first half with the ref standing over a ball following a long completion and the Bears missed the chance to spike the ball. I imagine you can remember seeing this a time or two. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-ten-amendments/992962/65 "2023-11-15T08:46:39Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > I imagine you can remember seeing this a time or two. I can absolutely remember a zebra standing over the ball as the players are hurrying up to get into position after a long pass completion, and being frustrated as an anxious fan by the fact that they can’t because “The Man” won’t let them, but I can’t say I remember this happening due to a substitution (which is a different situation from the play needing to be reset many yards downfield from the previous play) or right before a field goal kick attempt. So I still don’t think this is necessarily the same situation. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-ten-amendments/992962/66 "2023-11-15T08:52:44Z")
This wasn’t just that players were running to get set. The offense was completely set and ready to snap the ball. The defense was running players in from the sideline. So basically, the offense lost the chance at points because the refs were waiting for the defense to get their subs in. I’m not sure why this is different when the subs are the special teams unit. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-ten-amendments/992962/67 "2023-11-15T08:59:40Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > I’m not sure why this is different when the subs are the special teams unit. Using common sense, a kicker can’t run out onto the field and immediately kick the ball. They have to take at least a bit of time to line up, get set, then allow for the snap. So a referee might be less worried about the kicking team being able to get all of that set up before the defense is ready. Because again, it’s completely at the ref’s discretion. That’s one major reason why it’s different. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-ten-amendments/992962/68 "2023-11-15T13:35:39Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I can absolutely remember a zebra standing over the ball as the players are hurrying up to get into position after a long pass completion The only time(s) I can remember this happening is due to the fact that the defense has to be allowed time to get on their side of the line of scrimmage, which is the situation to which you alluded. > [@Omniscient](#): > > but we’ve definitely seen games where time expired because an umpire was standing over the center waiting for the defense to get ready before allowing the snap of a ball. Not after a substitution to get the kicking team on the field. Unless you can find a specific example, I’m saying it hasn’t happened. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-ten-amendments/992962/69 "2023-11-15T14:29:33Z")
The Patriots released second year cornerback Jack Jones on Monday. If you remember, he was arrested over the summer for bringing 2 loaded handguns in his carryon to Logan airport, but all charges were later dropped. He missed the first 6 games of the season with an injury, but played in the last 4. Rumors that the person who types up the release letters misheard the name of the player to release have not been confirmed. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-ten-amendments/992962/70 "2023-11-15T14:59:01Z")
Browns QB Deshaun Watson is out for the season due to shoulder surgery. PJ Walker will apparently be the starter in this week’s key game against the Steelers. > **[Browns' Watson out for '23 with injured shoulder](https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38903886/deshaun-watson-needs-shoulder-surgery-2023-season)** > > Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson will not play again in 2023 after an MRI showed he needs to undergo shoulder surgery. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-ten-amendments/992962/71 "2023-11-15T15:09:01Z")
Good thing the treatment plan is surgery and not massages. He’ll presumably be sedated and have less opportunity to harass the medical staff. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-ten-amendments/992962/72 "2023-11-15T16:11:06Z")
In two seasons he’s made approximately 92 million to play 12 games. And who knows if he’ll actually be ready to go at the start of next season. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-ten-amendments/992962/73 "2023-11-15T16:34:29Z")
Who cares? The Browns gave him a fully guaranteed contract, so whether he plays or not, whether he’s injured or not, whether he sucks or not, the Browns have an albatross around their neck and a lack of draft picks. Which is made all the more delicious by the fact that they have a Super Bowl caliber defense, and said albatross to handcuff them from getting there. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-ten-amendments/992962/74 "2023-11-16T00:22:33Z")
Yeah, screw Deshaun Watson, and screw the Browns for giving that rapist a guaranteed contract worth so damn much money. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-ten-amendments/992962/75 "2023-11-16T00:56:43Z")
Even better…guess who was Watson’s backup in training camp (before the Browns traded him and, eventually, he ended up blowing up in Minnesota)? > **[The Browns gave away Joshua Dobbs in August. It might end up ruining their...](https://sports.yahoo.com/the-browns-gave-away-joshua-dobbs-in-august-it-might-end-up-ruining-their-season-170436553.html)** > > Why did the Browns trade Joshua Dobbs and gamble at backup QB? ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-ten-amendments/992962/76 "2023-11-16T01:19:18Z")
@Moriarty, post that link in the new [thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-11-men-on-the-field-buffalo/993214) I just created, and let’s continue the discussion over there! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2023-week-ten-amendments/992962.md?page=3)