The All Blacks doing their war dance before every game is probably the coolest thing I’ve ever seen. The NFL could use some of that.
You know, soccer players do stuff that would put this to shame after practically every goal. I know goals are usually much harder to come by than touchdowns, but what do soccer fans think of stuff like this?
As for the NFL, they need a warm cup of STFU. There are far greater evils in the NFL than what some guy does after scoring a touchdown.
I’d have a hard time characterizing the more egregious offenders as having had much class in the first place… Gastineau, Deion, Irvin, Owens, etc.
As mentioned, give me Art Monk, Barry Sanders, Gayle Sayers, Walt Garrison or their like anyday.
To me it shows a profound lack of respect for your opponent, as well as for the contribution of your teammates.
IMHO, the cell phone incident was only the second worst celebration over the football weekend. I found DJ Duckett’s dance after scoring a meaningless touchdown, when his team was down 31-0 in the third quarter, highly improper. 17 yard run followed by 17 seconds of dancing. If a player has a right to celebrate after scoring, I think that the beaten defender should have equal time to vent his frustrations by dumping dancing/cell phone dialing idiots on their heads.
I think the NFL really cracks down on the premeditated stuff, especially with props, like the cell phone and the Sharpie, because really that stuff is a pretty slippery slope if you start to allow it. The other dances and what not pretty harmless, if childish.
The NFL though, should piss or get off the pot. They keep wringing their hands about this stuff but don’t give the refs any teeth. Want this to stop? Excessive penalty celebrations are not only 15 yds, but the play is negated (ie the TD is taken off the board).
Otherwise, STFU about it NFL.
I thought they could do that already, jk1245. The refs surely can tack on an unsportsmanlike penalty for taunting, so why wouldn’t they also do so for excessive celebration?
Okay, so they don’t negate the play. That might be a bit overboard, though; it’d be bad enough to give them a 15-yard penalty on the ensuing kickoff. YMMV.
I think the refs have plenty o’ teeth, they just don’t always use them.
The Saints got a fifteen yard penalty after the phone stunt.
Yeah, dantheman they do give a 15 yarder. That doesn’t really affect the player who committed the foul though. As lieu pointed out, the guys that do this sort of crap aren’t the most upstanding guys in the league so they probably don’t really care about the special teams anyway. Hit them where it hurts, their precious stats. Take their TD away. Not to mention, a few TD’s taken of the board and the coach couldn’t look the other way.
If I was a defensive lineman for the Saints, I’d have a few things to say to Joe Horn about his “can you hear me now?” impression.
Of course, if I was a defensive lineman for the Saints, I’d probably request a trade, so it’s a moot point.
Thing is (and I’m just going on what the announcers said during the game, myself having no prior knowledge of his character before the event) Horn was one of the good guys. When it’s not just the egocentrics but also the foundation players that are starting to behave this way, I’d sure like to see something done to keep this from getting out of hand.
Last thing I’d want is for Marvin Harrison, Joey Galloway, Jerry Rice, Marshall Faulk and others all to be trying to out-spectacle each other out there.
There’s a good article about this over at NFL.com :
Now hang on, lieu. You’ll never see Harrison, Rice, and Faulk do any of that. They haven’t now, and there’s no reason to think they ever will. Those guys happen to be class acts, as most of the receivers are.
It’s those few foolish me-firsts that stick out. The Keyshawns. The Horns. The Mosses. The Owenses. They’re a loud minority.
Anyway, jk1245, coaches losing 15 yards on an ensuing kickoff will definitely notice, and they really oughta have the balls to stand up to their players. Horn should have been sat down for at least a series, if not the rest of the game, but Haslet wussed out.
A $30,000 fine? Big deal. This guys makes how many millions?
If you want to make an impression on a player - take away a full game check.
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I always thought enforcing a penalty before a kick-off, was wrong. If against the receiving team, it almost guarantees they won’t get pinned back against the goal line. It does make a little more sense against the kicking team. But to be “equal” let the kicking play run normally, then enforce the yardage.
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Actually, you want to make an impression, let the defense have a free shot on the celebrating player with no fines or penalties at anytime during the rest of the game. :dubious:
I agree that in any event, Haslett should’ve sat Horn’s punk @ss down.
I didn’t like the phone call, or the “don’t sue me” sign, simply because I thought it was bad form. I really enjoyed Owens with the Sharpie, because it was cool. I like it when they haul the ball into the stands after a TD. Autographing it before he did? That was neat. Maybe it’s the romantic in me that someone who loves T.O. and/or the team caught the ball and it will be passed down… “grandpa caught this ball”. Sort of like the old Mean Joe Coke commercial. I didn’t see it as an “in your face” thing to the other team. Same thing as jumping into the stands. It says “This TD is also for you, the fans, who pay our salaries”.
I don’t like a lot of the new rules in the NFL. When a was a kid, you rarely saw an Unsportsmanlike Conduct call. You basically had to hit a guy with a hammer. Taunting? Come on… That stuff used to get settled on the field between players. That is what separated the greats from the geeks, and kept guys in check. Today, a rookie flips a ball into Ray Lewis’ face, he gets a penalty and Ray gets watched closely for a bad hit later. Can you imagine anybody even thinking of flipping a ball into the face of Butkus, Singletary, Hacksaw Reynolds, Nitshke or Lambert? That would be like signing your death warrant in blood. You wouldn’t make it to end of the game and maybe the season.
Yes, the new rules are all about keeping injuries down. But for what players get paid these days, let them earn it the old fashioned way. If I still had the speed (and body) I would happily play for base salary, which IIRC is about 60K, just to play. When I started playing, my dad always told me that nobody likes a hotdog. Just do your job. My H.S. coach would bench anyone for the next game, no matter how good they were, if they even spiked the ball on a TD. Because a spike was disrespectful to the other team, IOW, taunting. And while I still believe that, whether it’s at the feet of a DB, or alone in the corner, a full body spike looks good:)
I’m mixed about the phone call thing. Bad form aside, I see what they are trying to do, which is nip what I call the Gastrineau Effect in the bud. I think they are trying to stop the one-upmanship in celebration, not only to keep the game moving, but to keep it the NFL which some players don’t seem to think is different from the XFL. Too much crap, too late. They’ve “civilized” football too much for some players to care. If you got a couple million bucks in the bank, a 30 large fine plus a possible cellphone endorsement sounds like a good idea. If you KNOW that a pissed off Warren Sapp and Simeon Rice are going to shove that phone up your ass BEFORE they ruin your day, and ref isn’t gonna call them on it, you are going to cancel your phone service before the game and not do anything stupid.
I can see the point about the hot dogging, but here is my point:
Unless you are a bad clubhouse influence combined with mediocre talent, you probably won’t be punished…on the day in question, Joe Horn scored 4 TDs for the Saints(more than all of the Eagles WR put together…all season). The Saints are in the playoff hunt. Haslett would be killed by the fans if he cut him.
The point I’m trying to make is simple. If a player can produce, cutting him for being flambouyant on the field is detrimental to the team. I don’t think the Saints DL was too ticked off since they were romping all over their opponent.
Keyshawn is a different story, though. You have a flambouyant player who really didn’t produce, and was becoming a liability in the lockeroom. I applaud the Bucs for basically cutting him, but I guarantee that some team will sign him next year, for a good chunk of change. And I don’t think Moss or Owens will be cut anytime soon, unless their coaches want to get canned.
Bottom line is, I think you can be flambouyant to an extent, as long as you can back it up. Joe Horn backed it up.
The Saints weren’t romping at the time - that touchdown made the score only 17-7, hardly a rout.
All this crap about players celebrating is just Ridiculous!!!
Why can’t a player celebrate?!? Isn’t getting a TD supposed to be a big deal? Soccer players have great celebrations after putting in a goal, why shouldn’t it be the same way?
Handing the ball to the ref after scoring is right for some players, but that does not mean that it has to be the same for everyone!
As long as players do not directly taunt the other team/players, there there is no reason for any penalty or fine.
Before the taunting rule (the 15 yard penalty), there were plenty of players doing all sorts of dances. The ‘dirty bird’, ‘icky shuffle’, etc were all protocol. As long as it stays within the confines of the game (not taunting the opposing team/players, within time constraints), I don’t think there’s any reason to restrict a little celebrating.
Of course the media should have every right to poke fun at them (as in Duckett celebrating with his team behind by 25 points or Warren Sapps little bounce), but the players should be allowed to celebrate a score. There is no logical reason to take away players’ personality in celebrating a TD except when it is directed at the opposing team/players.
FWIW, Millen is President of the Lions, not a coach. Which probably makes his transgression worse.
Then again, his smooth move wasn’t a calculated thing. He extended himself to Johnie Morton, trying to make peace, and got “kiss my ass” in return. He reacted emotionally, in the “spirit of the moment.”
I wonder if he wouldn’t have gotten more grief had he responded “oh, okay Johnie, have a nice day.”
. . . hijack over; back to your regularly-scheduled discussion.
I don’t think he would have gotten any grief had he said that. No one would have reported it.