# NFL Black Monday 2024 thread
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-black-monday-2024-thread/995750
**Category:** The Game Room
**Tags:** football-nfl
**Created:** [January 7, 2024, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-black-monday-2024-thread/995750 "2024-01-07T22:25:17Z")
**Posts on this page:** 9
**Page:** 12
### Author:  [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2024, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-black-monday-2024-thread/995750/221 "2024-02-15T21:49:35Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#):
>
> And that’s not even getting to the DC tenure with the Giants
Also the Jets, whose defense was no slouch under Belichick from 97 to 99.
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### Author:  [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2024, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-black-monday-2024-thread/995750/222 "2024-02-15T21:54:39Z")
I’m not even sure what the point is supposed to be at this point.
There aren’t many coaches considered top tier who didn’t have a great QB associated with them. If the mere presence of a great QB (or more than one) is considered disqualifying, none of the great coaches should be considered all that great.
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### Author:  [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2024, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-black-monday-2024-thread/995750/223 "2024-02-15T21:56:33Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#):
>
> There aren’t many coaches considered top tier who didn’t have a great QB associated with them.
But there’s no such thing as a great QB. They are all products of their coaches.
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### Author:  [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2024, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-black-monday-2024-thread/995750/224 "2024-02-15T22:01:03Z")
Precisely.
But apparently some coaches are artificially buoyed up by the QBs they produce and others aren’t? Or that’s what I’m taking away from this
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### Author:  [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2024, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-black-monday-2024-thread/995750/225 "2024-02-15T22:17:15Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#):
>
> There aren’t many coaches considered top tier who didn’t have a great QB associated with them. If the mere presence of a great QB (or more than one) is considered disqualifying, none of the great coaches should be considered all that great.
It’s almost like saying that someone wouldn’t be such a good race car driver if they didn’t have such a good car.
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### Author:  [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2024, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-black-monday-2024-thread/995750/226 "2024-02-15T22:48:05Z")
Joe Gibbs is the obvious exception. The rest of the team was so good, it almost didn’t matter that much who was QB. They always had a great defense, and a great O-line. Individually on offense, Riggins was the star of those early 80s teams, not Theismann. And the '87 and '91 teams, Art Monk, Gary Clark, and Ricky Sanders were the stars, not Doug Williams or Rypien.
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### Author:  [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2024, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-black-monday-2024-thread/995750/227 "2024-02-16T04:56:57Z")
Brees was really good with the Chargers. Not HOF worthy or anything, but very good for a young QB on a team regularly drafting in the top 5. He made a Pro Bowl. That said, he was also benched in the season preceding the Manning/Rivers draft. Safe to say Payton didn’t make Brees…dude came in with the goods.
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### Author:  [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2024, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-black-monday-2024-thread/995750/228 "2024-02-16T05:02:15Z")
> [@DCnDC](#):
>
> Joe Gibbs is the obvious exception. The rest of the team was so good, it almost didn’t matter that much who was QB. They always had a great defense, and a great O-line.
Bill Parcells maybe as well.
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### Author:  [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2024, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-black-monday-2024-thread/995750/229 "2024-02-16T13:14:46Z")
Which one of the rotating cast of Belichek’s O-Coordinators made Tom Brady? Was Tom Moore responsible for Peyton Manning, and if so, why couldn’t he later develop a QB other than Carson Palmer in Arizona? Why did Greg Olson do so well developing Derek Carr, and then do so poorly with Blake Bortles?
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