NFL Blackout Rule And The Economy

[Piker]

@Omniscient

Wow, you really need to reread what I wrote.

I don’t see what you’re getting at. In response to a post about changing the blackout rules to help fans, you wrote on the (real) long term advantages that the blackout rule offers to league owners. Who do not have the same interests as supporters. What am I missing?

No, they are by definition revenue generating. The collect money from the lessee and take a portion of concession and parking sales. They have real income. Now, perhaps I shouldn’t have used the term profit since that depends greatly on the terms of the lease, the amount of money invested and the operating expenses and in the case of the Chicago Park District it’s a not for profit venture.

. . . [T]he point of my comments are that comparing the stadium finances of a team that owns it’s building outright versus teams that rent buildings that are publicly owned is not an apples to apples comparison.

Right. “Revenue generating facility” is more appropriate.

It would be better for fans for the team to issue “bonds” on the open market? For speculators and corporations to bid up? By issuing PSLs they are essentially creating bonds which are only available to the people who care most about the team and benefit most from it. And for the record publicly funded stadiums DO issue bonds, that’s where that public money comes from. By offering PSLs they are asking the average taxpayer who may or may not care about the team or even be a resident of the city to pay one portion and the season ticket holders, the fans and beneficiaries of a new venue, to ante up their portion. PSLs are better than having spreading the cost evenly amongst all taxpayers and more fair.

Of course, there is that unstated third option: avoid building incredibly expensive new stadiums that price out established fans because owners are “forced” to require Personal Seat Licenses.

-Piker

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

Love of God…I’m either going to have to drive 75 miles to a sports bar somewhere to watch the game, listen to it on the radio, or maybe try an internet stream.

What do people think about folks that purchase the NFL Sunday Ticket service from Direct TV? Those people get their local game blacked out too. I think it’s total bullshit. You’re essentially buying a ticket to all the games, and you pay a premium price for it, blackout rules shouldn’t apply.

See, this whole blackout thing wouldn’t be so bad if I could just go to my local watering hole that had the Sunday Ticket and watch it there. But I don’t have that option either. It’s fucking stupid.

[cmkeller]

I don’t get what “Personal Seat Licenses” are in the first place.

Isn’t that what we used to call “Season Tickets”? Except now this is sort of a fee on top of the actual ticket cost? At least that’s how it sounds to me.

[zamboniracer]

@cmkeller

I don’t get what “Personal Seat Licenses” are in the first place.

Isn’t that what we used to call “Season Tickets”? Except now this is sort of a fee on top of the actual ticket cost? At least that’s how it sounds to me.

From a fan’s perspective that’s exactly what they are. Buying the PSL not only allows, it apparently obligates, the fan to buy the season tickets for a given number of years.

Here’s a link to a recent Washington Post story about the Redskins suing fans for breaching their PSL payments. Link

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

The NFL caved (well, a little anyway):

*NFL.COM TO SHOW BLACKED-OUT GAMES FREE
IN LOCAL MARKETS ON DELAYED BASIS

Live In-Progress Coverage of All Games Available on Both
NFL Network’s NFL RedZone & DirecTV’s Red Zone Channel
Highlights Available Immediately After Games on NFL.com and Sprint &
For Download Following Day on iTunes and Amazon.com
NFL Network’s NFL Replay to Encore Four Games Each Week

NFL games that are blacked out in home team markets this season will be shown on NFL.com in their entirety on a delayed basis, the NFL announced today.

The league’s new NFL Game Rewind package on NFL.com will make all games available on an on-demand, subscription basis throughout the 2009 regular and postseason. However, games blacked out locally for failing to sell out 72 hours in advance will be available on NFL.com at no cost in the affected home markets.

These free “re-broadcasts” locally of blacked-out games will be available at NFL.com beginning at midnight on the day of the game and remain available for 72 hours (except during ESPN Monday Night Football telecasts).

“We understand that the economy is limiting some families and corporations from buying as many game tickets as they had previously,” said NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell. “These free re-broadcasts on NFL.com will allow our fans that can’t get to a blacked-out game an opportunity to see the entire game.”

Following are other ways fans can see NFL game action:

·NFL Sunday Ticket on DirecTV carries all Sunday afternoon games (local blackout rules apply).

·The Red Zone Channel on DirecTV and NFL Network’s NFL RedZone channel – available on other satellite, cable and telco providers – will provide live coverage from inside the 20-yard line as it happens during all Sunday afternoon games, with no game highlights blacked out.

·NBC’s Sunday Night Football game will also be streamed live on NBCSports.com and NFL.com.

·Postgame highlights of all games are available immediately after each game on NFL.com and NFL Mobile Live on Sprint. In addition, fans can download extended highlight packages the day after each game on iTunes and Amazon.com.

·NFL Network’s NFL Replay will re-air the four best games of the weekend (two on Tuesday and two on Wednesday in primetime) in a fast-paced, 90-minute format with bonus NFL Films footage, wired sound from the field, and coaches’ commentary.

·NFL Network’s NFL Replay Highlights video-on-demand product is available a few hours after each game, featuring extended highlights of every NFL game produced with NFL Films’ signature audio and cinematic elements.*

[MOIDALIZE]

@SenorBeef

I think a few december games still have tickets available, but no, there’s no real chance of them not being sold I don’t think. Outside of Green Bay, there’s no similarly sized city that has less of a chance of being blacked out, IMO.

The NFL didn’t do the Browns any favors by scheduling 4 of their last 5 games at home, when it will be freezing cold out and the Browns likely out of playoff contention.

[EllisDee]

@FoieGrasIsEvil

What do people think about folks that purchase the NFL Sunday Ticket service from Direct TV? Those people get their local game blacked out too. I think it’s total bullshit. You’re essentially buying a ticket to all the games, and you pay a premium price for it, blackout rules shouldn’t apply.

See, this whole blackout thing wouldn’t be so bad if I could just go to my local watering hole that had the Sunday Ticket and watch it there. But I don’t have that option either. It’s fucking stupid.

I can’t agree with your logic, as it seems to miss the sole point of blackouts entirely.

[Taber]

@Omniscient

See, here’s the rub that people seem to be overlooking. Blackouts exert pressure both on fans to buy tickets and on teams to ensure that they are offering a product people want and afford. Blackouts are bad for everyone and the NFL knows this.

If they were to lift the threat of blackout in these tough economic times then the owners are relieved of their pressure to reduce ticket prices, market their product and create sales initiatives. As a result those ticket price increases will never be rescinded since the NFL will have set a precedence that allows NFL owner to simply wait out tough times as opposed to responding to them.

If smaller market teams are threatened with blackouts then it puts the onus on the owners to give fans reason to come. Greedy irresponsible owners may ignore this to their own peril, see Bill Wirtz, but savvy owners will slash ticket prices and run incentives like MLB teams occasionally do to fill those stadiums and recover some revenue at the concession stands.

Removing the blackout policy, while a easy and shortsighted political fix, is a much worse long term solution. Removing the one pressure that owners have to lower ticket prices and peripheral costs is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Isn’t not selling tickets a pressure in and of itself? At a certain point, the blackout rule supports teams with insufficient draw by getting TV affiliates to buy up tickets the team was unable to sell.

[HoboStew]

I agree with Bill Simmons in his most recent article - while the economy may have something to do with lackluster ticket sales, the fact is going to a football game in 2009 simply isn’t fun. TV timeouts result in an awful lot of players standing around doing nothing, getting good seats is almost impossible, traffic sucks, getting gouged on parking sucks, getting gouged on food/drinks sucks, it is just overall a pretty not-fun experience. I usually go once a year, and every time I wonder why.

Contrast that with staying home, watching games all day, having fast/easy access to my fantasy stats (networks generally are slow at the games cuz of the traffic spike), sleeping in, etc. Or going to a bar with friends, having every game on, cute waitresses bringing you food/drinks… Both of these are far superior alternatives.

[gonzomax]

The NFL assumes the fans will take whatever they dish out. So far they have been right. But ,people can be turned off. They are taking risks. Like blackouts and strikes, it can be hard to get fans back when they are pissed off.
Kids really don’t follow sports all that much. It took Madden to get a lot of them into it. But a kid can not easily go to a NFL game on allowance money. The next generation may not be there ,if they are not able to see the home team on TV.

[Piker]

@HoboStew

I agree with Bill Simmons in his most recent article - while the economy may have something to do with lackluster ticket sales, the fact is going to a football game in 2009 simply isn’t fun. TV timeouts result in an awful lot of players standing around doing nothing, getting good seats is almost impossible, traffic sucks, getting gouged on parking sucks, getting gouged on food/drinks sucks, it is just overall a pretty not-fun experience. I usually go once a year, and every time I wonder why.

Contrast that with staying home, watching games all day, having fast/easy access to my fantasy stats (networks generally are slow at the games cuz of the traffic spike), sleeping in, etc. Or going to a bar with friends, having every game on, cute waitresses bringing you food/drinks… Both of these are far superior alternatives.

This.

The NFL has spent the last 15 years transforming itself into the greatest TV show in the country, so they shouldn’t be too surprised that people are not going to pay hundreds of dollars to go to games, just to be treated like Ricky Gervais in the first season of Extras.

[N9IWP]

I dunno, I went to the last home game of the Packers and even though the seats weren’t very good (endzone, though almost in Lambeau Leap territory) It was a way cool experience. But the tickets were free* (Brother in law won in a raffle), and another BIL lives in Green Bay and drove us there / back so no parking issues.

Of course, Lambeau will likely be sold out for the forseeable future so blackouts will not be an issue.

Brian
*face value $59

[HoboStew]

ummmmm… ya. If I got free tickets and someone chauffeurs me to & from the game, you’re right I would probably enjoy it a lot more. For the remaining 99.99999% of us…

[Omniscient]

@Taber

Isn’t not selling tickets a pressure in and of itself? At a certain point, the blackout rule supports teams with insufficient draw by getting TV affiliates to buy up tickets the team was unable to sell.

Somewhat but by making it an all or nothing proposition it dramatically increases the pressure on getting all those tickets sold. If a team is able to sell 95% of it’s seats at a very high price that loss of revenue from the missing 5% is something that they can swallow. They will simply bide their time and lose that 5% until the economy recovers. No price relief for fans. If the team has the threat of a blackout and the loss of the associated TV revenues, the ill will of the fans and damage done to the brand they have much more motivation to sell those remaining 5%. In striving to sell that 5% the other 95% will get price relief.

If a team is able to sell 95% of it’s tickets over the course of a season and things are business as usual and they make 95% of their profits then the team isn’t motivated to lower prices. If a team sells 95% of its seats but has 8 games blacked out and they only make perhaps 70% of their profits and is repeatedly mocked in the media and fanbase then you can damn well be sure that ticket prices will take a dramatic drop in the subsequent year and sales initiatives will be everywhere.

@Piker

I don’t see what you’re getting at. In response to a post about changing the blackout rules to help fans, you wrote on the (real) long term advantages that the blackout rule offers to league owners. Who do not have the same interests as supporters. What am I missing?

In what way did I say that the blackout benefits owners? The entire premise is that blackouts hurt the owners far more than it hurts fans. While it can be emotionally painful for the fans it’s financially catastrophic for the owners, especially if it’s a persistent issue.

If blackouts were good for teams and owner the folks in Jacksonville wouldn’t be tarping over all those seats in the upper deck. Teams wouldn’t move heaven and earth to sell those remaining tickets at the last minute to sponsors and local businesses. If blackouts increased the bottom line for owner you’d see a hell of a lot more of them.

[Omniscient]

@zamboniracer

From a fan’s perspective that’s exactly what they are. Buying the PSL not only allows, it apparently obligates, the fan to buy the season tickets for a given number of years.

Here’s a link to a recent Washington Post story about the Redskins suing fans for breaching their PSL payments. Link

No they aren’t. PSLs are the rights to rebuy the same seats every year. Basically you are buying your spot in line. Many, many (most even) teams tickets are impossible to get not because of the price but because they are all bought by season ticket holders. I can’t get Bears tickets for face value because the people who have Bears tickets have had them for 30 years and the waiting list is 5 years long. PSLs limit the number of people and scalper who are able to simply squat on their season tickets for their entire lives. PSLs are great for people like me because of them there are far more single game tickets available. And if I ever get the money together to afford season tickets in perpetuity I know I’ll be able to get them without waiting 15 years after applying.

You don’t have to buy a PSL, you can buy season tickets for most franchises without one, but people avoid that because they don’t get the right of first refusal in subsequent years.

I have no sympathy for that woman in that article. She bought something she couldn’t afford, the Redskins weren’t able to sell those seats to other people who could afford it. They lost revenues. In every other business this is accepted practices. She wanted to have her seats forever but she can’t pay for them, because of her issue another fan who can afford them and has been waiting will finally get the tickets they want. I’m supposed to feel bad for someone who has squatted on some tickets for 50 years in the popular venue in the country? She’s had her turn 100s of times over, time to let someone else in.

[cmkeller]

Omniscient:

No they aren’t. PSLs are the rights to rebuy the same seats every year.

I thought all sports teams offer their season ticket holders their same seat the following year. (Although maybe this has changed since the introduction of PSLs.)

[Piker]

@Omniscient

I have no sympathy for that woman in that article.

You have no sympathy for a 72-year-old grandmother who has been a season ticket holder for fifty years, but cannot make the payments for her Personal Seat License because of the collapse of her real estate business during the biggest housing crash in this country’s history, who then requests for her ten-year contract to be waived, but still gets sued for upwards of $60,000 by the team shes supported for half a century, which also happens to be the franchise that never fails to broadcast to the world that they have a waitlist of wannabe season ticket holders that is seven years long, and has 160,000 names on it?

“Accepted practices”?

[Omniscient]

@cmkeller

Omniscient:

I thought all sports teams offer their season ticket holders their same seat the following year. (Although maybe this has changed since the introduction of PSLs.)

Not all, though some used to and some probably still do. I’ve not seen a list that details those who still do. Certainly none with PSLs do.

@Piker

You have no sympathy for a 72-year-old grandmother who has been a season ticket holder for fifty years, but cannot make the payments for her Personal Seat License because of the collapse of her real estate business during the biggest housing crash in this country’s history, who then requests for her ten-year contract to be waived, but still gets sued for upwards of $60,000 by the team shes supported for half a century, which also happens to be the franchise that never fails to broadcast to the world that they have a waitlist of wannabe season ticket holders that is seven years long, and has 160,000 names on it?

“Accepted practices”?

Yes, accepted practices. I signed a 1-year lease for an apartment. If I lose my income and can no longer afford to pay my rent in a high demand location and stop fulfilling the terms of the contract my Landlord will certainly sue me for more than what I owe. People would probably feel bad for me, but the Landlord wouldn’t be vilified.

She had unstable income yet committed to a huge outlay of cash for a luxury item, now she’s being sued. If that contract had been a ten year lease on a beach house, a yacht or a or a Porsche would you be crying for her when the lessor came calling and sued?

She been a season ticket holder for 50 years. I bet she’s sold enough of those tickets over the years for well over face value, enough to pay off that PSL 10 times over. So sympathy at all. I have sympathy for the thousands and thousands of Redskins fans who have been on a waiting list for tickets for half their lives and still don’t have them. I feel sympathy for the tens of thousands of people who were gouged for 5 and 10 times face value for single games tickets from scalpers and season ticket squatters. I feel sympathy for the hundreds of thousands of people who have never been to a Redskins game because face value tickets are never available and they can’t afford to pay resale prices.

Cry me a fucking river for this woman.

[Piker]

@Omniscient

Yes, accepted practices. I signed a 1-year lease for an apartment. If I lose my income and can no longer afford to pay my rent in a high demand location and stop fulfilling the terms of the contract my Landlord will certainly sue me for more than what I owe. People would probably feel bad for me, but the Landlord wouldn’t be vilified.

Well, under the common law, landlords are charged with the duty to mitigate damages after a tenant’s surrender of the lease. So when a tenant does vacate, but the landlord easily replaces the tenant for the same amount of rent, the landlord will not be able to recover compensatory damages.

I think that, similarly, the Redskins would not have had a problem finding someone to purchase this elderly woman’s season tickets . . . they have a waitlist of over 100,000 people. No loss to them. Yet they pull the trigger on the lawsuit. How noble.

She had unstable income yet committed to a huge outlay of cash for a luxury item, now she’s being sued. If that contract had been a ten year lease on a beach house, a yacht or a or a Porsche would you be crying for her when the lessor came calling and sued?

“Luxury item”. Sports teams are exactly like sports cars or boats, blue jeans or toasters, not a whit of difference. Let me know which other goods can consistently be outperformed year after year but still sell their product to capacity, like professional sports teams do. I still see the Forty-Niners sell out every game . . . I’m sure it’s because their “brand” has been so successful as of late.

I feel sympathy for the tens of thousands of people who were gouged for 5 and 10 times face value for single games tickets from scalpers and season ticket squatters. I feel sympathy for the hundreds of thousands of people who have never been to a Redskins game because face value tickets are never available and they can’t afford to pay resale prices.

Cry me a fucking river for this woman.

I didn’t know having sympathy by those ripped off by extraordinarily high ticket prices was mutually exclusive with having sympathy with someone being sued by the club they’ve supported since the JFK Administration.

Or is there just not enough of your sympathy to go around? I’m don’t know what you’re getting at.

[Omniscient]

@Piker

Well, under the common law, landlords are charged with the duty to mitigate damages after a tenant’s surrender of the lease. So when a tenant does vacate, but the landlord easily replaces the tenant for the same amount of rent, the landlord will not be able to recover compensatory damages.

I think that, similarly, the Redskins would not have had a problem finding someone to purchase this elderly woman’s season tickets . . . they have a waitlist of over 100,000 people. No loss to them. Yet they pull the trigger on the lawsuit. How noble.

It’s business. Who gives a fuck if she’s elderly, she bought something she could not afford. It was stupid and she’s paying the price. Is she really any different than the fools being foreclosed on around the country right now?

And yes, with an apartment the landlord might not be awarded damages, but they’ll sue for them. I suspect the Redskins won’t be awarded any damages either, but they are going to sue for them. It’s for the courts to decide, there is no difference.

“Luxury item”. Sports teams are exactly like sports cars or boats, blue jeans or toasters, not a whit of difference. Let me know which other goods can consistently be outperformed year after year but still sell their product to capacity, like professional sports teams do. I still see the Forty-Niners sell out every game . . . I’m sure it’s because their “brand” has been so successful as of late.

Do you have any jeans or toasters which carry multi-year leases? You have expensive tastes. What the hell does performance have to do with anything? Hell, because of this great performance this woman could probably sell her PSL on eBay and be done with it. She’s probably being sued because she wants to keep her PSL withou actually buying the seats. If she sells the whole shebang it’ll be finished and done with but she feels like as an poor elderly 50 year season ticket holder she deserves special consideration.

Or is there just not enough of your sympathy to go around? I’m don’t know what you’re getting at.

I’m supposed to have sympathy for someone who’s had season tickets to the most in demand sporting event in all of sport for 50 years? Really? Do you have sympathy for Bernie Madoff too? Antoine Walker? Lindsay Lohan?