# NFL Coaching carousel, who stays and who goes? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 29, 2013, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-coaching-carousel-who-stays-and-who-goes/677430 "2013-12-29T20:01:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2014, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-coaching-carousel-who-stays-and-who-goes/677430/81 "2014-01-13T23:23:19Z")
Whisenhunt to Tenessee. Huh. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-coaching-carousel-who-stays-and-who-goes/677430/82 "2014-01-14T07:36:40Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Johnson had a 92.9 rating that Super Bowl year. Glennon, in his last 5 games, topped out at 78.7. You’d better hope they get/stay healthy and one of the DE’s develops, because I don’t see that defense doing it without stellar D Line play. Maybe McCoy is that guy. We will see. > > On the upside, Lovie is tons better than Schiano. Glad you got rid of that prick. I agree with the conventional wisdom here, Lovie needs a great 3-technique more than a great DE. I think McCoy can be that guy and the walking wounded Tampa has at DE will feast on scraps. I expect this defense to be pretty great out of the gates. The offense and the QB search are liable to be a garbage fire. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-coaching-carousel-who-stays-and-who-goes/677430/83 "2014-01-14T07:39:42Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Whisenhunt to Tenessee. Huh. Detroit certainly looks a lot nicer in paper with a heck of a lot more patient owner. Wonder if he’s not sold on Stafford and the rest of the head cases he’d have to deal with. Poor Megatron. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-coaching-carousel-who-stays-and-who-goes/677430/84 "2014-01-14T14:38:14Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > I expect this defense to be pretty great out of the gates. The offense and the QB search are liable to be a garbage fire. I’m kind of okay with that, and it’s one reason why I hope Glennon remains the starter. I think he’s “good enough to win with” considering how good the defense should be and how good the running game will be with Doug Martin healthy. I don’t see any reason he can’t be a Russell Wilson; I know the talking heads kiss that guy’s ass constantly but he’s horrifically overrated. The Seahawks offense begins and ends with Marshawn Lynch, and Wilson is the permanent beneficiary of eight man fronts. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-coaching-carousel-who-stays-and-who-goes/677430/85 "2014-01-14T15:13:01Z")
> [@furt](#): > > You’re cherry-picking. His season rating was a respectable-for-a-rookie 83.9. Great, now he’s only 9 points off Brad Johnson’s Super Bowl season. Still a huge gap, and while 83.9 is respectable for a rookie, it’s really not good for a championship caliber QB. Which was the point. > [@furt](#): > > Better reasons to be skeptical would be that he was pretty unremarkable in college and that he has the build of a Polish radio mast, with mobility to match. Polish radio mast. I like that. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-coaching-carousel-who-stays-and-who-goes/677430/86 "2014-01-14T15:14:18Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > I expect this defense to be pretty great out of the gates. The offense and the QB search are liable to be a garbage fire. It’ll be the Bears all over again.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-coaching-carousel-who-stays-and-who-goes/677430/87 "2014-01-14T15:30:54Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Great, now he’s only 9 points off Brad Johnson’s Super Bowl season. Still a huge gap, and while 83.9 is respectable for a rookie, it’s really not good for a championship caliber QB. Which was the point. Polish radio mast. I like that. Nobody (including me) thinks he was a championship caliber quarterback last year. Having said that, 83.9 is a better quarterback rating than Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck, Andy Dalton or Joe Flacco managed as rookies. All of those players were deemed to have had superlative rookie years. In fact, it’s the sixth best rookie passer rating of all time. If you project Glennon’s numbers for 13 games over the full season he’d have 3209 yards, 23 scores, and still just 11 interceptions. Admittedly, Glennon wasn’t close to RGIII or Russell Wilson’s rookie efficiency numbers, but nobody else has ever been close to those either (and the Seahawks played hide-the-quarterback with Wilson for half of his rookie season.) ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-coaching-carousel-who-stays-and-who-goes/677430/88 "2014-01-14T15:45:23Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Nobody (including me) thinks he was a championship caliber quarterback last year. And, given his last 5 games this year, I don’t think he’ll develop as Manning and Luck did, or at least not fast enough to take advantage of the predicted outstanding defense. With the Gruden team, the offense had an average NFL QB, but he was a veteran and he had a very good year. Glennon is young, unproven, and, while he may be good in comparison to prior rookie years, I don’t see the talent level, or development, that would lead me to believe he’ll ever attain “greatness”. Of course, I said all that about Josh Freeman, and look how he turned out. Oh, wait, I was right about him. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-coaching-carousel-who-stays-and-who-goes/677430/89 "2014-01-14T15:52:33Z")
I don’t know why you’d focus on his last five games. He only played 13 in total, and his #2 and #3 wide receivers for those last five were Tiquan Underwood and Chris Owusu; his #1 running back was Bobby Rainey. We’re talking about guys who have struggled to make NFL scout teams. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-coaching-carousel-who-stays-and-who-goes/677430/90 "2014-01-14T16:54:23Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I don’t know why you’d focus on his last five games. Because they were the most recent, and thereby an indicator of how he developed over the season. It’s after the defense gets some tape on him, after he’s got a few games under his belt, and against the better teams in the NFL. I suppose you take his first 5 as more indicative of his abilities, I guess, so YMMV. > [@RNAT](#): > > He only played 13 in total, and his #2 and #3 wide receivers for those last five were Tiquan Underwood and Chris Owusu; his #1 running back was Bobby Rainey. We’re talking about guys who have struggled to make NFL scout teams. All good excuses for his poor performances. You are free to think Glennon will be a great NFL QB, but, to me, there were too many holes in his game, and I don’t think he’ll be anything more than a maybe servicable QB who won’t win games, won’t better your team, and will need to have All Pro linemen, a #1 WR, a great RB, and an amazing defense to win a championship. Of course, that’s true for a majority of NFL QB’s, but there we are. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-coaching-carousel-who-stays-and-who-goes/677430/91 "2014-01-14T17:48:35Z")
Lions appear to have hired [Jim Caldwell.](http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2014/01/13/justin-verlander-and-kate-upton-spotted-in-philly/) Not sure they had any other real good options at this point, but I can’t help but think “Same Old Lions.” Although I suppose he has a track record of fine tuning QBs. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-coaching-carousel-who-stays-and-who-goes/677430/92 "2014-01-14T17:56:18Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > All good excuses for his poor performances. You are free to think Glennon will be a great NFL QB, but, to me, there were too many holes in his game, and I don’t think he’ll be anything more than a maybe servicable QB who won’t win games, won’t better your team, and will need to have All Pro linemen, a #1 WR, a great RB, and an amazing defense to win a championship. Of course, that’s true for a majority of NFL QB’s, but there we are. I specifically said I don’t think he’ll be great. However, what empirical evidence we have shows he’ll be well above average, and certainly better than Brad Johnson. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-coaching-carousel-who-stays-and-who-goes/677430/93 "2014-01-14T18:20:05Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Lions appear to have hired [Jim Caldwell.](http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2014/01/13/justin-verlander-and-kate-upton-spotted-in-philly/) > > Not sure they had any other real good options at this point, but I can’t help but think “Same Old Lions.” Although I suppose he has a track record of fine tuning QBs. I think Caldwell has a record of benefiting from his association with Peyton Manning and Tony Dungy. He didn’t do any fine-tuning to speak of with Joe Flacco, and during Caldwell’s year with Tampa (2001) Brad Johnson performed below his career average. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-coaching-carousel-who-stays-and-who-goes/677430/94 "2014-01-14T18:27:06Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > I think Caldwell has a record of benefiting from his association with Peyton Manning and Tony Dungy. He didn’t do any fine-tuning to speak of with Joe Flacco, and during Caldwell’s year with Tampa (2001) Brad Johnson performed below his career average. Yeah, I’m really just trying to convince myself this isn’t going to me another unmitigated disaster. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-coaching-carousel-who-stays-and-who-goes/677430/95 "2014-01-14T18:33:09Z")
Meanwhile as a Ravens fan, I’m happy to let you have him. Not sure what Baltimore’s thinking about his replacement, but he’ll have his work cut out for him. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-coaching-carousel-who-stays-and-who-goes/677430/96 "2014-01-14T18:38:43Z")
I think the Lions were high on Whisenhunt, and he opted out of the situation. Not like Detroit had many other options. They’ve also got salary cap issues, meaning any coach is going to come into a situation where they have limited options in building a team after paying Suh, Stafford, and Calvin Johnson. Of course, as a Houston fan, I’m more than delighted with Whisenhunt to Tennessee. If he follows his Arizona pattern, he’ll switch between Ryan Fitzpatrick and Jake Locker all season without making either a better QB. Perma-QB controversy is great for the rest of the division. For such a great offensive coordinator, he absolutely blows at developing and utilizing younger QBs. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-coaching-carousel-who-stays-and-who-goes/677430/97 "2014-01-14T18:56:08Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I specifically said I don’t think he’ll be great. However, what empirical evidence we have shows he’ll be well above average, and certainly better than Brad Johnson. I think we disagree on the extrapolation from his rookie passer rating to his overall career trajectory, because in no way do I think it shows that he will be a “well above average” NFL QB. I suppose if he continues to have a #1 WR, a strong offensive line, a great running game, and a strong defense, he could attain the rank of an Andy Dalton, though. If you can come up with a nice wager on Glennon’s future, say if he ever ranks in the top 10 of QB’s in the NFL in season passer rating or if the Bucs win a Super Bowl with him, I’m all for it. **furt** owes me a bottle of spirits over Pat White, so I’d double down on Glennon. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-coaching-carousel-who-stays-and-who-goes/677430/98 "2014-01-14T18:58:55Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > I think we disagree on the extrapolation from his rookie passer rating to his overall career trajectory, because in no way do I think it shows that he will be a “well above average” NFL QB. I suppose if he continues to have a #1 WR, a strong offensive line, a great running game, and a strong defense, he could attain the rank of an Andy Dalton, though. If you can come up with a nice wager on Glennon’s future, say if he ever ranks in the top 10 of QB’s in the NFL in season passer rating or if the Bucs win a Super Bowl with him, I’m all for it. **furt** owes me a bottle of spirits over Pat White, so I’d double down on Glennon. What if he has a career passer rating 5 points above Brad Johnson’s after three seasons? ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-coaching-carousel-who-stays-and-who-goes/677430/99 "2014-01-15T00:15:58Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Lions appear to have hired [Jim Caldwell.](http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2014/01/13/justin-verlander-and-kate-upton-spotted-in-philly/) Wow, he’s pretty good looking! Should be a model, not a football coach. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-coaching-carousel-who-stays-and-who-goes/677430/100 "2014-01-15T01:22:09Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Lions appear to have hired [Jim Caldwell.](http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2014/01/13/justin-verlander-and-kate-upton-spotted-in-philly/) > > Not sure they had any other real good options at this point, but I can’t help but think “Same Old Lions.” Although I suppose he has a track record of fine tuning QBs. He did a bang-up job with Curtis Painter. Same old Lions indeed. It’s too bad the Lions beat the Browns to the punch on this one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-coaching-carousel-who-stays-and-who-goes/677430.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-coaching-carousel-who-stays-and-who-goes/677430.md?page=6)