# NFL MVP: Vick or Brady (or other)? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 21, 2010, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-mvp-vick-or-brady-or-other/564970 "2010-12-21T17:07:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-mvp-vick-or-brady-or-other/564970/41 "2010-12-27T01:12:13Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Did anyone NOT pick the Patriots to make the playoffs? Lots of people predicted the Eagles would miss. > > Brady has had a great year, and the Pats have outperformed most predictions, at least somewhat. But not to the extent that the Eagles have. And Brady cannot do all the things that Vick can. He just can’t. He might not do as many things as Vick, but he does do one rather huge thing a lot BETTER than Vick; throw the football. You don’t have to be Mr. Scrambly when you’re that ruthlessly efficient a quarterback. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-mvp-vick-or-brady-or-other/564970/42 "2010-12-27T01:33:36Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Did anyone NOT pick the Patriots to make the playoffs? Lots of people predicted the Eagles would miss. Lots of people picked the Patriots to miss the playoffs this year. For example, both Mike Greenberg and Mike Golic. (Who also both picked the Eagles to make the playoffs.) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-mvp-vick-or-brady-or-other/564970/43 "2010-12-27T02:40:16Z")
I’d pick Vick. I feel that Belichick deserves more credit for the Patriots’ overall success than Brady does. ---
**Author:** ![Jules\_Andre](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jules_andre/32/9334_2.png) [@Jules\_Andre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jules_Andre)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-mvp-vick-or-brady-or-other/564970/44 "2010-12-27T03:09:14Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Lots of people picked the Patriots to miss the playoffs this year. For example, both Mike Greenberg and Mike Golic. (Who also both picked the Eagles to make the playoffs.) Greenie is like 2-936 on his weekly picks, too. I’m not sure he’s the authority you want to cite here. Most people had the Eagles out of the playoffs with Kolb, somewhere around 8-8. I picked the same. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-mvp-vick-or-brady-or-other/564970/45 "2010-12-27T03:15:17Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > He might not do as many things as Vick, but he does do one rather huge thing a lot BETTER than Vick; throw the football. > > You don’t have to be Mr. Scrambly when you’re that ruthlessly efficient a quarterback. Did you see Post 31? I wouldn’t call the difference in those stats “a lot BETTER”. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-mvp-vick-or-brady-or-other/564970/46 "2010-12-27T03:55:25Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > It’s a persuasive argument only if you can demonstrate that Polamanu’s presence or absence was in fact the reason the Steelers were 14-4 in one set of games and 5-7 in the other. Yep, this was my thinking too. I was actually contemplating a search, to see if i could find a distinctly mediocre player who just happens to play in games that his team wins, but it seemed like too much work. An even more basic issue that **Airman Doors** ’ calculation also fails to consider is that the MVP is awarded for play over a single season. I’ve never seen anyone, ever, say “Well, John Doe has been essential to Team X’s performance over the past 2 seasons, so he deserves this year’s MVP.” It just doesn’t work like that. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-mvp-vick-or-brady-or-other/564970/47 "2010-12-27T12:47:08Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > He might not do as many things as Vick, but he does do one rather huge thing a lot BETTER than Vick; throw the football. Not this year, brother. Seriously. > [@Ellis Dee](#): > > Lots of people picked the Patriots to miss the playoffs this year. For example, both Mike Greenberg and Mike Golic. (Who also both picked the Eagles to make the playoffs.) Lots? I’m asking (sincerely, I’m an Eagles guy, so I don’t follow any other team closely) if the predominant sentiment was that the Pats would miss the playoffs, not whether there were specific instances of people who predicted that. SI, for example, thought an AFC championship was possible for any team in the East except the Bills. [This from ESPN](http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/preview10/news/story?id=5493278) had 14 of 16 experts predicting the Pats’ making the playoffs, and winning the division outright was the prediction of half of them. The Eagles as a playoff team is the outlier here; if there’s a consensus, it’s that they miss. Both teams have overachieved, the Eagles _much_ more so. And the difference for us this year is Vick. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-mvp-vick-or-brady-or-other/564970/48 "2010-12-27T13:21:32Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I can’t imagine any scenario when I would vote for Michael Vick. I still think he should be stripped naked, rolled in hamburger meat, and fed to pit bulls. I will probably always think that. So I’m right then, the Michael Vick in the OP is the piece of shit that shouldn’t be playing any sport in the view of real, sane people? The dog killer guy? I had assumed he had slunk off to oblivion as he should have. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-mvp-vick-or-brady-or-other/564970/49 "2010-12-27T13:35:45Z")
Yeah, it’s not that other Michael Vick. A real NFL fanatic, are you? ---
**Author:** ![Bootis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@Bootis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootis)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-mvp-vick-or-brady-or-other/564970/50 "2010-12-27T15:57:03Z")
The eagles handily beat the falcons without Vick. They have a good team, Vick isn’t as singular a reason as you’re hyping him to be, 2-1 in non Vick starts with a strong win over the falcons. If Vick had started all games the year it would be a lot closer, but Brady will, and should win it this year. The interception record defines the patriots success,and is a truly remarkable accomplishment. 34 tds to 4 ints is just absolutely insane, and is an enormous reason the patriots have already clinched home field advantage. It’s absurd to think the MVP pool should only consist of players from teams who weren’t predicted to do well. That’s why it never has. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-mvp-vick-or-brady-or-other/564970/51 "2010-12-27T16:02:11Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > So I’m right then, the Michael Vick in the OP is the piece of shit that shouldn’t be playing any sport in the view of real, sane people? The dog killer guy? I had assumed he had slunk off to oblivion as he should have. As it turns out, moral worth and skill at athletic endeavor are uncorrelated. I realize this comes as a shock to everyone, particularly broadcasters. ---
**Author:** ![Kiros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/439d5e/32.png) [@Kiros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiros)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-mvp-vick-or-brady-or-other/564970/52 "2010-12-27T16:09:23Z")
Not to mention, isn’t the ultimate goal with any criminal to have them serve their (“example” length) sentence as a (reportedly) model prisoner, then successfully integrate back into society and provide millions of dollars worth of economic benefit by practicing their chosen profession? ---
**Author:** ![dotchan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@dotchan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dotchan)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-mvp-vick-or-brady-or-other/564970/53 "2010-12-27T16:35:21Z")
One suspects Vick is pushing himself to do well because he knows he wouldn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell if he wasn’t a phenomenal athlete regardless of what kind of human being he is. ---
**Author:** ![soulmurk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@soulmurk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/soulmurk)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-mvp-vick-or-brady-or-other/564970/54 "2010-12-27T16:41:18Z")
> [@Bootis](#): > > The eagles handily beat the falcons without Vick. They have a good team, Vick isn’t as singular a reason as you’re hyping him to be, 2-1 in non Vick starts with a strong win over the falcons. A good win against the Falcons at home, in what was a demonstration of what Reid saw in Kolb, but something Kolb couldn’t consistently replicate and so more of a fluke than an example of how good the team is without Vick. They also barely squeaked by the (5-10) 49ers and got thumped by the (6-9) Titans. In the game against the (6-9) Redskins he started but didn’t finish, and they went from sure victory to tough loss. Small sample size and all, but somewhat telling are the Eagles points per game with and without him. With: 32.3 Without: 22.5 It’s impossible to say that he’s entirely responsible for an extra 10 points when he’s in the line-up, but anecdotally at least, he is. That’s a huge deal and only a portion of how important he is to that team’s success. > [@](#): > > The interception record defines the patriots success,and is a truly remarkable accomplishment. 34 tds to 4 ints is just absolutely insane, and is an enormous reason the patriots have already clinched home field advantage. It is a remarkable accomplishment, and he’s a remarkable player, but that record involves a certain amount of luck as well. Regardless, the Patriots are still an elite team even without Brady. Their system and discipline is what wins them games, and while I’m not saying you can plug-and-play any old QB and get the same results, you can put someone of lesser talent in there and still challenge for the division. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-mvp-vick-or-brady-or-other/564970/55 "2010-12-27T16:47:02Z")
Not with the defense they have this year. ---
**Author:** ![Bootis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@Bootis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootis)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-mvp-vick-or-brady-or-other/564970/56 "2010-12-27T16:56:06Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Not with the defense they have this year. Nope: the patriots are poised to give up 6000 yards this year. No team in NFL history has given up 6000 yard and _made the playoffs_ The patriots won _home field_ . Which means it’s all their offense, which is Brady and rookie tight ends, welker off of knee surgery, washed up dion branch, castoff Danny wood head ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-mvp-vick-or-brady-or-other/564970/57 "2010-12-27T17:32:11Z")
More specifically, in 2008 with Matt Cassel the Patriots had the 10th ranked defense, and managed to win 11 games. According to Mike & Mike this morning, since week 6 of this year no QB has played better than Matt Cassel, so it’s not like any old scrub stepped in and led the team to 11 wins, and they had a good defense as well. This year the Patriots have the 27th ranked defense and traded away Randy Moss. Brady has almost single-handedly carried the team to the #1 seed in the AFC. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-mvp-vick-or-brady-or-other/564970/58 "2010-12-27T17:37:24Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Yeah, it’s not that other Michael Vick. A real NFL fanatic, are you? Look at his location field. It might surprise some Americans to know this, but basically no-one outside of the United States and Canada gives a flying fuck about the NFL. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-mvp-vick-or-brady-or-other/564970/59 "2010-12-27T17:40:22Z")
The Eagles clearly have better talent around the QB: Jackson, Maclin, Avant, Celek, McCoy versus Welker, ummm, Hernandez, hmmm, Deion Branch, BenJarvis Green-Ellis, Danny Woodhead. I like Woodhead and Green-Ellis, the TEs are proving to be quite effective. But which set of players woul dyou rather have, honestly. The Eagles group by a mile. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-mvp-vick-or-brady-or-other/564970/60 "2010-12-27T18:13:15Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Look at his location field. > > It might surprise some Americans to know this, but basically no-one outside of the United States and Canada gives a flying fuck about the NFL. And yet they post in threads on the topic. What a crazy world, eh? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-mvp-vick-or-brady-or-other/564970.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-mvp-vick-or-brady-or-other/564970.md?page=4)