# NFL Offeason Thread 2017 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 9, 2017, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offeason-thread-2017/781798 "2017-03-09T21:07:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offeason-thread-2017/781798/41 "2017-03-28T00:02:42Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Will they be the Vegas Raiders (like the Golden Knights) or Las Vegas Raiders? (I’m hoping for the latter, it’s similar to the Los Angeles Raiders name I remember.) **Atamasama** , from the press conference it appears that they are going to still be using the city name of “Oakland”, as in “The Oakland Raiders of Las Vegas”. Kind of like “The California Angels of Anaheim in Los Angeles”. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offeason-thread-2017/781798/42 "2017-03-28T00:03:53Z")
> [@bobo\_blesinger](#): > > and the NFL has lost one more pair of eyeballs. Fuck all of them. [Read it](http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2700271-raiders-move-to-las-vegas-shows-the-only-thing-that-matters-in-the-nfl-is-money) and weep **bobo blesinger**. Here is [My Pit](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20096855&postcount=127). ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offeason-thread-2017/781798/43 "2017-03-28T01:17:43Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Will they be the Vegas Raiders (like the Golden Knights) or Las Vegas Raiders? (I’m hoping for the latter, it’s similar to the Los Angeles Raiders name I remember.) Technically, from what I can see, their stadium will be in Paradise, so they will be the Paradise Raiders. Has a nice ring to it, no? Hopefully they will call their new stadium “The Quarry”, so that **Snowboarder Bo** will have a handy place to throw stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offeason-thread-2017/781798/44 "2017-03-28T01:27:06Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Technically, from what I can see, their stadium will be in Paradise, so they will be the Paradise Raiders. Has a nice ring to it, no? > > Hopefully they will call their new stadium “The Quarry”, so that **Snowboarder Bo** will have a handy place to throw stuff. Right. And maybe the Raider Faithful will start wearing flowers in their hair. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![magnusblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@magnusblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magnusblitz)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offeason-thread-2017/781798/45 "2017-03-28T03:55:02Z")
Yeah, pretty damn heartbroken about this. I mean, the writing was on the wall for awhile now, but still held out hope something would change. Lots of conflicting emotions. Obviously Davis deserves the majority of scorn. Yes, the Oakland Coliseum is a shithole, but he’s still the one deciding to move the team. He could’ve found a way to raise the money for a new stadium and stay if he really wanted to… but it wouldn’t be good for the bottom line. Or he would’ve had to sold the team (I’m sure there’s at least one or two tech billionaires in the Bay Area would’ve keep the team here). But he wanted to keep the team, and wanted a new stadium that he didn’t have to pay for. I know, it’s silly to think someone should give up the business he owns, but it’s a reminder that it just a billionaire’s business and we’re cheering for the laundry. And even though it’s economically not in the interest of cities to pay for stadiums, they found a city willing to drop the money on it. Oakland had their backs against the wall thanks to decades of mismanagement and couldn’t really pay for a new stadium even if they wanted to. > [@Little\_Pig](#): > > **Atamasama** , from the press conference it appears that they are going to still be using the city name of “Oakland”, as in “The Oakland Raiders of Las Vegas”. Kind of like “The California Angels of Anaheim in Los Angeles”. 😛 No, they’ll just be using “Oakland Raiders” while they play in Oakland, which they will be (barring something unforeseen) for 2017 and 2018. The new stadium is expected to be ready for the 2020 season, so where they play in 2019 is still up for grabs. Kinda wonder how they will impact ticket sales for the next two seasons. I expect they’ll still sell out, as long as the team is doing well like it did last year. But if they start to slip it could get sour quick. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offeason-thread-2017/781798/46 "2017-03-28T04:15:38Z")
I don’t get it. I remember reading somewhere (CNN maybe?) recently that the city of Oakland had a deal in place to keep the team there and build them a new stadium for football only. The article even stated that the very same financial group that was putting up $700 million of the money against the city’s $200 million and the team’s $500 million was the same financial group backing the Vegas stadium. Then 'nary a peep, then this. What happened to the last ditch deal to keep the team in Oakland? ---
**Author:** ![magnusblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@magnusblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magnusblitz)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offeason-thread-2017/781798/47 "2017-03-28T04:44:38Z")
The deal to stay in Oakland (being fronted by Ronnie Lott) relied on Fortress Investment Group, who the NFL didn’t want anything to do with. They also said the Oakland stadium plan wasn’t very well put together in general (though they never really said specifics) and implied it was just a bare-bones attempt by the city leadership to save face by appearing to do something. The more cynical theory is that it’s happening because Jerry Jones made it happen, because his marketing group Legends is making a shitload of money from these new stadium deals - they handle the selling of the suites, sponsorships, naming rights, etc. They’ve done it for the new 49ers stadium, are doing it for the Inglewood (Los Angeles) stadium, and will be doing it for the Las Vegas stadium. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offeason-thread-2017/781798/48 "2017-03-28T04:48:02Z")
How does Jerry Jones get around revenue sharing/conflict of interest with THAT business? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offeason-thread-2017/781798/49 "2017-03-28T04:55:25Z")
So is it really official now, or is there yet another level of approvals/votes to make it happen? I don’t support teams moving away barring a total lack of fan support, but I’ll probably personally benefit from all the extra football fan tourism. As long as they don’t stick the stadium somewhere stupid for traffic. Lots of empty space south of the strip on I-15 and they were thinking of cramming it in near UNLV somewhere… ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offeason-thread-2017/781798/50 "2017-03-28T05:17:57Z")
I haven’t watched the Oakland stadium situation that closely, but this is still a surprise. With the Niners basically doing everything they can to incinerate decades of goodwill and support short of making and distributing child porn, the door was wide open for the Raiders to take over the front pages for a generation. They really needed to get some kind of partnership with some tech money to make a user friendly stadium happen, but I’m sure that would have cost Davis a sizable stake in the team which was anathema. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offeason-thread-2017/781798/51 "2017-03-28T05:44:20Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > We will forever disagree about Jay Cutler, but I agree that he, by himself, wasn’t the root of the problem. The root of the problem was the Bears valuation of him. From giving up two first round and a third draft picks to get him, to buying him free agents on offense (Bushrod, Marshall, Bennett), to paying him much more than he produced, the Bears tried everything to build the team around him. Those decisions really hurt their defense, which you’ve seen recently and even now. They thought he was something he’s not, and have paid the price with recent mediocrity. Still the same argument. They paid what it cost. When you’re dying of thirst in the desert, you’ll overpay for water, even if it’s not Fiji. Selling those picks didn’t crater the franchise, a decade of terrible drafting did. Giving up those picks didn’t prevent them from taking a flier on David Carr, Russell Wilson, Kirk Cousins or Dak Prescott. > [@Hamlet](#): > > I’m a bit surprised the Bears wouldn’t match his “prove it” contract with the Eagles, but he’s completely unreliable as you said. I’m guessing that there is stuff going on at Halas Hall that we don’t know about that raise questions about his health/work ethic/ability to play well with others. The story going around is that Jeffery didn’t want to be here. I’m guessing he saw the rebuild coming and wanted to have someone competent throwing to him, which I get. Never heard any stories about poor work ethic or locker room problems and with the media here…we’d have heard. > [@Hamlet](#): > > I think Lurch is a desperation signing, but the Bears could have done worse. Ask Houston about paying a ton of money for unproven backup. I do like Glennon a ton better than Osweiler, though, and he may actually be a solid signing. The Bears spent around $50M in guarantees, but only like $4 of that carries into 2018. So, there’s really no comparison to Houston here. If it’s all a failure, they haven’t done any long term damage. Ultimately it’s all window dressing if they can’t draft a QB. > [@Hamlet](#): > > Whitehair was very impressive last year for a young player, and seems like he has a great future. I’d worry that the heavy investment in the center of the line has left steaming piles of garbage outside, which will get their QB killed and limit their success. I think that’s outdated thinking. Plenty of pressure comes from the middle these days and giving the QB somewhere to step up is really important. Ideally you want to be strong everywhere, but lots of teams have been successful with a strong interior line and replaceable tackles. The running game helps a lot there, and tackles typically are pretty useless in the run game. We’ll see, mostly I want those 3 guys healthy. > [@Hamlet](#): > > Should be an interesting draft for the Bears. They’ve struggled recently getting anything of value out of their first round picks Understatement of the year. > [@Hamlet](#): > > maybe, just maybe, Fuller becomes a #1 CB (he won’t), White stays healthy and lives up to his physical skills (he might), and Leonard Floyd becomes more than a situational pass rusher (answer unclear, ask again later). Yep… Doubtful… I’m skeptical still, but was a lot better than expected last year. > [@Hamlet](#): > > It does make me smile though that the Bears are picking at #3 after another lousy season though. I’m convinced this will play out like 2014 and 2015…the best defensive player in the draft almost slipping to us…and then not. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offeason-thread-2017/781798/52 "2017-03-28T06:15:14Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > So is it really official now, or is there yet another level of approvals/votes to make it happen? > > I don’t support teams moving away barring a total lack of fan support, but I’ll probably personally benefit from all the extra football fan tourism. As long as they don’t stick the stadium somewhere stupid for traffic. Lots of empty space south of the strip on I-15 and they were thinking of cramming it in near UNLV somewhere… [These renderings](http://nesn.com/2017/03/raiders-las-vegas-stadium-renderings-are-jaw-dropping/) seem to put it behind (west of) the Mandalay complex. Looks like an aesthetic nightmare to me, but I have no taste, I guess (LV in general looks that way to me). ---
**Author:** ![magnusblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@magnusblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magnusblitz)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offeason-thread-2017/781798/53 "2017-03-28T07:43:07Z")
Re: stadium location, from [this article](http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/03/23/raiders-move-las-vegas): > [@](#): > > The stadium location, for instance, hasn’t been finalized; while the airport site has generated the most discussion, mayor Carolyn Goodman keeps pushing for the Cashman Field parcel several miles north of the Strip, where the [Las Vegas 51s, the Mets’ Triple-A affiliate] currently play. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offeason-thread-2017/781798/54 "2017-03-28T15:07:01Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Still the same argument. They paid what it cost. When you’re dying of thirst in the desert, you’ll overpay for water, even if it’s not Fiji. I don’t see how that counters anything I said. Suppose I have a mystery box. I sell it to you for $1,000. That’s what it costs. In the box is a set of Bears shot glass that cost $10.00 at the local Target. Do you think you overpaid? Did you make a mistake throwing all that money at me for something that wasn’t worth the cost? Simply saying “well, that’s what it cost” just ignores the fact the price was too high for what they got. > [@Omni](#): > > Selling those picks didn’t crater the franchise, a decade of terrible drafting did. It’s not as simple as one thing. But the Bears certainly did put a premium on giving Cutler all the weapons he could want on offense … at the cost of the defense. And for the last 3 years or so, you’ve seen what happens when you focus on offense and ignore defense. > [@Omni](#): > > Giving up those picks didn’t prevent them from taking a flier on David Carr, Russell Wilson, Kirk Cousins or Dak Prescott. Of course it did. They didn’t draft a QB because they thought they had a “franchise QB” in Cutler. They got their “glass of water” from the desert, so they didn’t buy any more. > [@Omni](#): > > I’m convinced this will play out like 2014 and 2015…the best defensive player in the draft almost slipping to us…and then not. They’re picking 3, so they’ll have their pick of the best DB in the draft or a defensive lineman who could be great. I think Garrett is the only guy almost certainly gone at 3, but then they’ll have their choice of players. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offeason-thread-2017/781798/55 "2017-03-28T15:14:50Z")
> [@magnusblitz](#): > > No, they’ll just be using “Oakland Raiders” while they play in Oakland, which they will be (barring something unforeseen) for 2017 and 2018. The new stadium is expected to be ready for the 2020 season, so where they play in 2019 is still up for grabs. On one hand, I hate when teams move. On the other hand, if they’re in Vegas in 2019 I’m definitely making a trip there to see the Bears. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offeason-thread-2017/781798/56 "2017-03-28T16:07:58Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > But the Bears certainly did put a premium on giving Cutler all the weapons he could want on offense … at the cost of the defense. And for the last 3 years or so, you’ve seen what happens when you focus on offense and ignore defense. For the first half of Cutler’s tenure with the Bears, that was probably a risk they could take, because the defense was very good. But, then, cornerstones like Urlacher, Briggs, and Tillman got old, and as the Bears had focused their drafts on building an offense, they didn’t have anyone worthy to pick up the slack on defense. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offeason-thread-2017/781798/57 "2017-03-28T16:09:28Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > They’re picking 3, so they’ll have their pick of the best DB in the draft or a defensive lineman who could be great. I think Garrett is the only guy almost certainly gone at 3, but then they’ll have their choice of players. Assuming they don’t trade down for more picks. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offeason-thread-2017/781798/58 "2017-03-28T16:10:34Z")
> [@magnusblitz](#): > > No, they’ll just be using “Oakland Raiders” while they play in Oakland, which they will be (barring something unforeseen) for 2017 and 2018. The new stadium is expected to be ready for the 2020 season, so where they play in 2019 is still up for grabs. > > Kinda wonder how they will impact ticket sales for the next two seasons. I expect they’ll still sell out, as long as the team is doing well like it did last year. But if they start to slip it could get sour quick. This entire situation is weird. It’s like telling your spouse, “I’ve fallen in love with a Vegas showgirl, and I want a divorce. But, it’s going to take three years for it to be final, so, in the meantime, I’m still going to live here, and I’d like you to keep cooking my dinner and doing my laundry, OK?” ---
**Author:** ![steatopygia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steatopygia/32/3132_2.png) [@steatopygia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steatopygia)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offeason-thread-2017/781798/59 "2017-03-28T21:13:12Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > This entire situation is weird. It’s like telling your spouse, “I’ve fallen in love with a Vegas showgirl, and I want a divorce. But, it’s going to take three years for it to be final, so, in the meantime, I’m still going to live here, and I’d like you to keep cooking my dinner and doing my laundry, OK?” That always works out well, right? Now I’m going to crap in this thread. F…ing Redskins. Even when they do something right, they screw it up. Cousins is a fine quarterback. Good enough, that with a team around him, they should be able to go to win the NFC. Pretending that the Cowboys don’t exist. I’m hoping they had a lucky year. Yeah, I know, unlikely. But they had to franchise Cousins for the second year in a row. They can’t even sign a nice guy who is fairly young and can do his job. They can’t even fire someone without screwing it up. Instead of doing the normal off-season change of personnel, they let their GM just disappear during scouting and free agency. It must be something in the water. Couldn’t possibly be the owner. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offeason-thread-2017/781798/60 "2017-03-28T22:42:22Z")
> [@steatopygia](#): > > That always works out well, right? > > Now I’m going to crap in this thread. > > F…ing Redskins. Even when they do something right, they screw it up. > Cousins is a fine quarterback. Good enough, that with a team around him, they should be able to go to win the NFC. Pretending that the Cowboys don’t exist. I’m hoping they had a lucky year. Yeah, I know, unlikely. > > But they had to franchise Cousins for the second year in a row. They can’t even sign a nice guy who is fairly young and can do his job. > > They can’t even fire someone without screwing it up. Instead of doing the normal off-season change of personnel, they let their GM just disappear during scouting and free agency. > > It must be something in the water. Couldn’t possibly be the owner. Oh Dan Snyder. He’s the only reason I’m not the worst owner in the NFL. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offeason-thread-2017/781798.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offeason-thread-2017/781798.md?page=4)