NFL offseason 2018

The Shel Silverstein poem “Smart” reminds me of the way the Browns draft players.

My dad gave me one dollar bill
'Cause I’m his smartest son,
And I swapped it for two shiny quarters
'Cause two is more then one!
And then I took the quarters
And traded them to Lou
For three dimes-- I guess he didn’t know
That three is more than two!
Just then, along came old blind Bates
And just 'cause he can’t see
He gave me four nickels for my three dimes,
And four is more than three!
And I took the nickels to Hiram Coombs
Down at the seed-feed store,
And the fool gave me five pennies for them,
And five is more than four!
And I went and showed my dad,
And he got red in the cheeks
And closed his eyes and shook his head–
Too proud of me to speak!

Vontaze Burfict is now facing (another) four game suspension for violating the NFL’s performance enhancing drugs policy, per my NFL app. Sigh. Our linebackers are shit besides him, but it sucks having a part time player. Fuck!

Everyone rushes to praise the Browns doing all the trade downs on draft day, and by conventional wisdom they get good value out of them. People are being totally results-oriented. They wait 2 or 3 years to find out that the guys the Browns drafted with the later picks were busts and then say “ha ha, Browns, how stupid, why would you trade down!”

The trading down isn’t the problem - getting consistent value for trade downs is a fine way to build a team - the problem is that the Browns didn’t draft stars with most of those picks they picked up. If they did, suddenly everyone would be praising their genius in trading for a lot more picks to build a team with. Sports fans are incredibly results oriented and can’t even see it. Same thing with how going for it on fourth down in a borderline situation is either OMG GENIUS! or OMG WORST DECISION EVER! depending on whether it works or not.

To me I never had a problem with them trading down, extra high picks are a very good way to build the team out around the QB…but it’s been the guys at the QB position that they’ve continually passed on that would infuriate me were I a Browns fan.

Seattle trades down all the time. In fact I can’t remember the last time they used a first round pick at the original spot, they either swap to a later pick or more picks in later rounds. But they get great players in later rounds. As others said the problem isn’t the general strategy, it’s not recognizing talent.

AFAIK the Browns aren’t picking players that don’t work out in Cleveland but get success elsewhere. They pick players that don’t succeed in the NFL at all. Sometimes a player just isn’t the right fit; Alex Collins was a mediocre RB in Seattle then went to Baltimore and is a star in their scheme.

On draft day you can be sure that if you see someone who experts say will have a great career, but the Browns pick him, surely those experts were wrong.

The Browns did pretty much what every draft wonk said they should do. Everyone shits on the the team that gives up picks to go get a guy and loves the “trade back” team. Wait until a team trades up to get Darnold or Rosen, that GM will get crucified because of that mindset. The Eagles got killed for going to get Wentz, the Redskins got killed for going to get RG3 (salvaged by also taking Cousins in the same draft). When we look back, we never acknowledge that paying a ton for a QB was actually a smart decision and trading back was phenomenally dumb for the Browns and Rams. Yes, the Browns have drafted terrible players…because drafting players is really fucking hard. It WAY harder to build the next Ravens defense than it is to find the next superstar QB.

There’s always a price. The Colts were dead set on Luck, but they still had Manning. If the Browns gave them a Ricky Williams style offer of a whole draft or say 4 #1s they would have had to consider it.

Interesting possible result - if he loses his appeal, it voids all of the guarantees in his contract, giving Cincinnati almost NO cap penalty if they release him. That moose antler spray or whatever-it-was might leave him unemployed.
Not that it’ll stop any number of teams from pursuing him, given the recent interest in Ndamukong “Never Met A Body Part I Didn’t Want To Connect My Foot With” Suh.

Yeah. There’s been recent trade rumors about Burfict and the Raiders, but I am certain now that this squashes all that. I’m going to go ahead and say it…Burfict has played his last down as a Bengal. Marvin Lewis, long known as a bastion of excellence, ain’t got time for that shit. We’re trying to go 8-8 here.

Some intended-to-be-quick-but-aren’t thoughts:

• Nick Foles isn’t elite. But he has shown enough now that we can say he can do a damned good impression of being elite under the exact right system. That’s where guys like Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Peyton, etc. are/were different. The system doesn’t matter, the players around them don’t matter – they made everyone better. Foles is never going to be that guy. Doug Pederson saw that and modified the offense to what Foles does best. He took what worked with Chip Kelly, tossed the bullshit up-tempo-always nonsense, and gave him a more sophisticated passing attack. And in that offense, Foles is better than guys like Flacco, Dalton, Newton, and especially Eli, are in theirs. Don’t forget, Foles didn’t just have the 27-2 season. He had the greatest single statistical game a QB has ever played in there. The throws he made in this postseason (flea flicker to Torrey Smith, dimes to Corey Clement and Alshon Jeffery in the Super Bowl, etc.) show that Foles can make elite throws only a handful of guys can. He wasn’t some unknown backup who got hot. He’s done this before.

Which is a long way of saying Foles’ Super Bowl wasn’t a fluke, but the investment to make it happen again is way, way too high to be worth it. It isn’t just his trade price, which would be absurd. Just trading for him will absolutely fail. You’d have to build an entire coaching staff and roster around him. His offensive line has to be good enough to trick Foles into not back-pedaling on every drop back (an underrated reason 2014 was so bad). His receivers have to be able to beat press man quickly, consistently. But they also have to be able to play the ball downfield. His running back has to be disciplined. And his coach has to be really, really good at calling an unpredictable, evolving offense. Foles can give you a lot more than every other average and above-average QBs, but not easily.

• Let’s talk a bit about Eli. There has never been a more overrated, dining-car-along-for-the-ride QB. Of Yards (and Y/A), TDs, and QB Rating, he has been top 3 in only one category, once. Never led the league in any of those. But he has led the league in INTs three times. He has, in basically 13 seasons, been top ten in QB Rating once. Never top 3. Never even top 5. If you compare his career per-season averages to league-wide averages, even excluding his partial first year, his stats are basically almost exactly league average. I’m an Eagles fan, so fuck Eli, but even I had a better opinion of him than the numbers deserve.

Eli Manning is the proof you can win a Super Bowl with an average quarterback, not Nick Foles.

• The Browns’ drafting strategy is excellent. It’s their scouting department that has consistently, habitually, let them down. If I owned a team and they drafted based on the Browns’ strategy, I’m happy. Then again, I’d be going through scouting personnel like Oreos.

On that note, I think Howie Roseman has guided the Eagles front office into a new league paradigm. He moves up, he moves back, but where he I think he has led a revolution within the league is that he recognizes that trading players is the best way to shape a roster. Nobody has traded players more than Howie Roseman when you consider his two stints as GM sandwiching the Chip Kelly era. Teams so overvalue draft picks that you can get proven veteran players for significantly less than they seem to be worth. Like when Roseman got Tim Jernigan in exchange for the Ravens getting to move up a few spots in the third round. Or you can trade away horrible contracts that turned out to be a mistake. Like when he traded away Byron Maxwell, Kiko Alonzo, and a 1st round pick for a better 1st round pick in order to move up and get Carson Wentz.

Maybe it’s simplistic to say, but my front office strategy would be to use my top 2-3 picks to get the best player available, my late picks to trade for veterans to fill gaps in my roster, and free agency to sign depth and bench players only. It just seems to me to be the best route by far.

The Colts just robbed the Jets blind. Jets move up from 6 to 3, but give up the 6, 2 2nd round picks this year, and their 2nd round next year. That seems like way too much to move up three spots…

Good for the Colts. They need the picks to flesh out their team and don’t need a QB. They’re my youngest son’s favorite team and they’re about 90 minutes away, so when they aren’t playing the Bengals, we root for them.

Jets trade is strange. I could see paying that much if the guy you think was the top QB in the draft fell to #3, but it would have to be a deal contingent on their guy being there, to be done on draft day. To trade that much ahead of time means that they’re willing to pay that much for a guy they’re confident isn’t anyone’s #1 or #2 QB. Not seeing the upside there - either conduct the trade on draft day when your guy is there, or pay less than exorbinant price if you’re gambling by trading before the draft.

This puts the Browns in the driver’s seat with the #4 pick. They get to take the best QB #1, and then the best non-QB at #4 if they want. It seems unlikely the Giants aren’t going QB - sure, it’s possible they go with Barkley or something, but it seems unlikely to me because it would make sense that the Jets offered them the same package they offered for the #3 pick - and it seems unlikely that the Giants are going to turn down that haul to draft a running back or other non-QB position. So it seems extremely likely that the top 3 picks are QBs.

And then Denver probably needs a QB at 5, which means it’s very tempting for someone to trade up to 4 to jump them. Or Denver themselves to prevent that. Looking for the Bills to move up to that spot, maybe. We could potentially see 4 or 5 QBs taken in the top 5.

I would love if the Browns could get a haul to move back a few spots from the 4. Having the Bills pay to get ahead of Denver would be ideal. Browns could still land Barkley/Chubb/Fitzpatrick at 6 and pick up some extra picks in the process.

Some Browns fans are trying to concoct a scenario where we take Barkley at #1 and then take whatever QB is left at #4. There’s a really weird Stockholm Syndrome type thing going on with our fanbase - after seeing 20 years of being held back by QB play, they somehow try to come up with reasons why a QB isn’t that important. Oh, build the team around them and any QB can succeed. Oh, all the QBs are the same anyway, let’s draft someone else and then pick whoever no one else wanted at our second pick. I can only interpret it as a paradoxical psychological response to suffering through endless bad QB play, because it doesn’t make sense any other way.

If they get cute like that, I may done. If the Browns don’t come out of the #1 with a QB or a fucking mega huge trade down I probably can’t overcome that at this point. I don’t think it’ll happen though, I think most of it is just the media trying to stir up intrigue over the #1 pick.

Woops, got the Bills and Jets mixed up as potential trade partners (before the Jets-Colts) trade. It’s the Jets at 6, not the Bills. Still would take a trade down to 12, but not as slam-dunk as I was thinking. Bills have #22 also, so something like #12, #22, and their 2nd rounder for #4 would be pretty good.

Flacco vs. Eli. Who you got in a playoff game?

We’ll see. If the QB they draft is the next Wentz, they got a bargain. If Luck is damaged goods and never plays a full season again…the Colts are fucking idiots.

The Bears gave up a 4th rounder to move up from #11 to #9 to draft Leonard Floyd. Just one data point.

Well put. But I suppose you could make the case that the price was a lot lower today than it would be on draft day.

Maybe not. Before this trade one would have assumed the Browns could get a king’s ransom for their #4 pick when one of the QBs slipped. Sure, they have a solid chance of getting the top QB and RB here, but there seemed to be a desire to trade down. Their chances of trading down diminished a lot and the Colts got the payday instead.

The under.

Haha perfect answer. :slight_smile:

I’d bet the over on turnovers though.

I kinda feel like if the Browns don’t take Saquon Barkley then they’re idiots. The guy is clearly far and away the best offensive player in the draft.

The Browns should really bite the bullet and take the top RB in the draft with their first pick. What could go wrong?

I see what you’re doing there…