# NFL offseason discussion thread. **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 17, 2016, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-thread/746344 "2016-02-17T15:25:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2016, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-thread/746344/21 "2016-03-07T07:38:18Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Lovie Smith’s next stop is the university of Illinois. A mediocre college job after the NFL. > > [http://www.si.com/college-football/2016/03/05/illinois-hiring-lovie-smith-bill-cubit-head-coach?xid=si\_social](http://www.si.com/college-football/2016/03/05/illinois-hiring-lovie-smith-bill-cubit-head-coach?xid=si_social) It’s not a done deal, but as a Chicagoan, Bears fan and Illini alum I have some difficult to sort feelings on this one. First, I was on the vanguard of the fire Lovie brigade in his last several years of his reign in Halas Hall and predicted his flame out in Tampa. The guy has strengths but he’s just not suited to being a NFL HC in a number of important ways. However, my Illini have been in a dismal state for about a decade now. In both hoops and football they’ve been horrible and their HC choices have been downright pedestrian. Their issues largely resulting from a badly mismanaged athletic department. They just brought in a new AD who is really bright and an alum, but who also doesn’t have a track record in the Power 5. Many people think Lovie has the temperament and the skills to be a great college coach. I think this thought has merit, but what Illinois desperately needs is credibility and an ability to recruit. Lovie will mean publicity which is probably a benefit. Lovie will add credibility in the short term by way of an NFL pedigree. But it’s a big open question of if he can recruit. Perhaps his Texas roots and him being a black HC will be assets, but he’s never had to sit in a parents living room before and probably doesn’t know how the game is played. Another question is how Lovie’s “players coach” persona will work with a bunch of 18-20 year olds. In the NFL the tactic of treating his players like men and his endless protection and loyalty meant his players would run through a wall for him. I’m not sure that this matters quite as much in college where kids come and go quickly and they frankly aren’t men yet. If the deal goes through it’ll certainly give me an excuse to tune in every week this year, that much is certain. Say it with me…“Wes Lunt is our Quarterback.” ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2016, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-thread/746344/22 "2016-03-07T08:09:02Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > This is beyond me. Unless you’re inflating the abilities of older players who played a game that vastly different from the last 20 years or so, like Otto Graham, Slingin’ Sammy Baugh, or Johnny Unitas, I can’t fathom how Manning falls out of the top 5. Montana. Brady. I can see those guys arguably above him, but who else? Favre was too error prone. Elway was too inaccurate and never was the best QB of his era (0 First Team All Pro selections). Marino? Nice stats, but not in the conversation as the greatest QB of all time. Who are you putting in there that Manning wouldn’t be in the top 5, and why? I’m not sure if Manning is top 5 or not, but it’s definitely reasonable to question it I think. Manning benefits from the “modern” NFL, and his stats may be inflated. I’m not ready to automatically concede that Baugh, Graham or Unitas wouldn’t have put up impressive numbers if they played today. The job of QB has certainly changed and Manning was really good at doing today’s version of the job, but I don’t think he’d have been very good at doing the job as Otto Graham was in his era. The fact that Manning’s version of QB is recent doesn’t inherently make it better. I’d rank Brady and Montana ahead of Manning for sure. I would probably rank Young ahead of him as well, in spite of his shorter apex. Elway and Kelly make compelling cases based on post-season performance compared to Manning and comparable passing stats adjusted for era. If you’re a Passer rating fan Rodgers is in the discussion. I’m too young to have seen any of them but I’d have to bet that at least one of those old guys were as good or better than Manning as playing QB if not passing the ball. Manning might bet better than any of those guys, but let’s not pretend that he put the mark so far beyond everyone else that it’s not even a discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2016, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-thread/746344/23 "2016-03-07T08:45:25Z")
One more post for the night, this time on the the Bears NFL Offseason so far. In another thread I predicted that the Bears would part ways with Bushrod and Forte, and maybe Bennett, leaving them with mountains of cap room and that’s exactly what’s happened. There’s been some additional rumors about them looking to trade guys like Willie Young and Lamarr Houston to free up even more space. I agree with the Bushrod and Forte moves, I disagree with them moving Houston and I’m up in the air on Young and Bennett. Some of that extra money is going to be getting paid to Alshon Jefferey as a result of his franchise tag whether a long term deal is struck or not. Personally I’m hoping we stick with the 1 year tag to make him prove he can play a full 16 games and so we can see what we have in injured rookie Kevin White. It’s looking like Cutler now has the full support of both the coaches and management, a recurring trend where the media perception is at odds with the team now spanning 3 administrations. Some people are expecting a reversal now that Adam Gase has left for Miami so we’ll have to wait and see. I’ll be very interested in seeing what happens if either Goff or Wentz slips to the 11th pick, will the Bears grab a QB of the future in spite of Jay’s re-found status? Part of me would love it, hopefully giving Wentz 2 years on the bench to season, but we do need some talent that contributes as a rookie to rebuild with. It’ll probably be a moot point since I doubt the second QB slips past the Niners. It’ll be very interesting to see what happens in free agency. Lots of rumors about the Bears raiding the Broncos defense, especially the D line and LBs. We certainly need the help at both positions and doing so would allow us more flexibility in the draft to go BPA. Right now I’d rank our needs as DB, LB, OL, DL and WR. There’s a couple in-house guys that we need to retain to establish continuity but any stars or big upgrades will need to come from outside. If we move on from Bennett then TE probably shoots up the list of priorities too. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2016, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-thread/746344/24 "2016-03-07T13:11:06Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > That was a joke. Yeah … I knew that … I was just … playing along with it … HAHAHAHAHA … I was … playing along. You know, pretending to be the way too invested sports fan … who can’t tell an obvious joke … Heh, I’m funny. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2016, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-thread/746344/25 "2016-03-07T14:30:25Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Here’s a place for all the offseason news, signings, and unfortunately arrests. The draft is worth a separate thread. > > I’m not all disappointed that Everett Golson didn’t receive a combine invitation. This self centered idiot skipped out on FSU’s Peach Bowl game for ‘personal reasons.’ He was just butt hurt about losing the starting job. He left Notre Dame after cheating and knew he wasn’t going to be the 2015 starter at ND. > > NBC Sports - ProFootballTalk: Everett Golson hopes for an NFL shot, despite no Combine invitation > [Everett Golson hopes for an NFL shot, despite no Combine invitation - NBC Sports](http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/02/17/everett-golson-hopes-for-an-nfl-shot-despite-no-combine-invitation/) That’s a bit of a misrepresentation. Golson had sat out the 2013 season at ND for the academic incident and returned to ND in 2014. Then he transferred to FSU after a not-so-great end to the '14 season. And I believe Jimbo Fisher said the personal excuse for skipping the Peach Bowl was the death of his grandmother. In any case, Golson is a guy with NFL skills. But he lacks other attributes that would be necessary to compete as an NFL QB. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2016, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-thread/746344/26 "2016-03-07T16:00:58Z")
RG III released. He will have to find a new place to ‘build his brand.’ NBC Sports - ProFootballTalk: Robert Griffin III has been released > **[Robert Griffin III has been released - ProFootballTalk](https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/03/07/robert-griffin-iii-has-been-released/)** > > There was some hope that they could swing a trade, but the existence of a $16 million-plus contract for quarterback Robert Griffin III in 2016 and the Redskins’ need to part ways with him before that contract became guaranteed on Wednesday... ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2016, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-thread/746344/27 "2016-03-07T17:57:25Z")
Adam Schefter this said the Browns will probably wait to release Johnny Manziel pending a possible suspension handed down by the league. If that transpires, they could get some bonus money back. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2016, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-thread/746344/28 "2016-03-08T00:29:12Z")
Can’t find more details but I see stories about Demarco Murray being traded to Tennessee. [http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000642098/article/eagles-to-trade-demarco-murray-to-titans?campaign=fb-nf-sf22130456-sf22130456](http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000642098/article/eagles-to-trade-demarco-murray-to-titans?campaign=fb-nf-sf22130456-sf22130456) ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2016, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-thread/746344/29 "2016-03-08T01:50:47Z")
Man, I can’t believe how many teams are helping them cleaning up Chip’s mess ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2016, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-thread/746344/30 "2016-03-08T02:10:05Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Can’t find more details but I see stories about Demarco Murray being traded to Tennessee. [http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000642098/article/eagles-to-trade-demarco-murray-to-titans?campaign=fb-nf-sf22130456-sf22130456](http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000642098/article/eagles-to-trade-demarco-murray-to-titans?campaign=fb-nf-sf22130456-sf22130456) Good news for us Mariota fans. ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2016, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-thread/746344/31 "2016-03-08T06:34:39Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Man, I can’t believe how many teams are helping them cleaning up Chip’s mess Thats because they must realize what a complete asshole he was. I STILL cant believe the 49ers hired him after what he did to this team. ---
**Author:** ![mcgato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac8455/32.png) [@mcgato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mcgato)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2016, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-thread/746344/32 "2016-03-08T13:26:29Z")
I think Chip Kelly was not horrible as a coach, and it seemed that the Eagles wanted to keep him as a coach. He was unbelievably horrible as a GM, which the Eagles realized and had to remove him from that position. I believe he was fired when he refused to relinquish the GM position. ---
**Author:** ![xizor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xizor/32/102_2.png) [@xizor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xizor)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2016, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-thread/746344/33 "2016-03-08T17:13:37Z")
Not a surprise, but [Megatron has officially retired](http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14927247/calvin-johnson-detroit-lions-retiring-nfl-nine-seasons) ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2016, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-thread/746344/34 "2016-03-08T20:02:19Z")
> [@xizor](#): > > Not a surprise, but [Megatron has officially retired](http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14927247/calvin-johnson-detroit-lions-retiring-nfl-nine-seasons) Another all-time talent retires early rather than play for the Lions. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-thread/746344/35 "2016-03-09T16:02:30Z")
Free agency starts today. The Chargers signed Travis Benjamin, which just makes sense, since the Browns are so loaded at wide receiver, and have tons of money, why would they sign a home-grown talent that was coming into his own and really blossoming last year? Definitely better for your fastest receiver to be significantly below average. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-thread/746344/36 "2016-03-09T16:34:32Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > The Chargers signed Travis Benjamin, which just makes sense, since the Browns are so loaded at wide receiver, and have tons of money, why would they sign a home-grown talent that was coming into his own and really blossoming last year? Definitely better for your fastest receiver to be significantly below average. Meh. Benjamin is fine … I guess. For as fast as he is perceived, his yards per route run is just 1.65 (for comparison, that’s Terrance Williams/Kamar Aiken/Markus Wheaton territory, while guys like Marshall or Brown are about 2.0+). It could be a matter of use (only about 20% of his routes were past 20 yards), or piss poor QB play, but I’m not seeing anything special about Benjamin (his PFF grade is -4.0 putting him at 86th among NFL WR’s and he dropped 8 balls). It all depends on what they’re paying him, and if they get any value as a returner from him, but I don’t think “I know he’s an average player, but he’s the best we got” is a reason to sign a guy. Besides, Josh Gordon will be back. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-thread/746344/37 "2016-03-09T16:37:21Z")
I actually think “I know he’s an average player, but he’s the best we got” is a fine reason to sign the guy if his contract demands are reasonable and you have plenty of cap money. You need at least 3 receivers and the Browns have one. They’re forced to draft or sign a replacement, and they aren’t likely to sign a guy who’s better for the same price. His stats underrate him due to bad QB performance. He was past the entire defense on a regular basis and the quarterbacks couldn’t get him the ball. He’s going to do really well in San Diego. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-thread/746344/38 "2016-03-09T16:45:55Z")
He’s getting $6 million from the Chargers. He isn’t a good enough punt returner to be worth that. The reason you’re pining for him is because the Browns lost 2 years of his early career because of knee problems, and they’re losing him just after he finally showed _something_. But he’s an eminently replaceable player. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-thread/746344/39 "2016-03-09T17:47:44Z")
Marvin Jones was their WR target in free agency and he signed in Detroit. If Josh Gordon doesn’t get reinstatement, their #1 WR is… Brian Hartline? Taylor Gabriel? Terelle Pryor? Somehow a historically weak WR corps gets weaker while the team sits on some of the most money under the cap for another year. ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-thread/746344/40 "2016-03-09T17:54:00Z")
> [@](#): > > RG III released. He will have to find a new place to ‘build his brand.’ > NBC Sports - ProFootballTalk: Robert Griffin III has been released It would be mildly ironic if RG3 ended up signing with the Rams, considering that Washington gave them so much to get RG3 in the first place. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-thread/746344.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-thread/746344.md?page=3)