# NFL offseason discussion (up to but not including draft) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 22, 2008, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702 "2008-02-22T07:02:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/541 "2008-04-02T20:01:03Z")
[QUOTE=SenorBeef] Results of the owner conference: Reseeding and hair/nameplate ideas weren’t voted on. Passed: Defensive radio No more forceouts (cool with me) Phil Dawson field goal rule - field goals are reviewable except on the issue where the ball travels over the upright, then it’s still a judgement call. (not sure if this one will come up anytime in the next decade) Teams that win the coin toss can now defer like college "• A direct snap from center that goes backward will now be treated as a fumble. Previously, it was ruled a false start. " (I’m not quite sure what this means) The 5-yard face mask penalty was eliminated. Now, only the serious face mask will be called (and will be assessed as a 15-yard penalty). The major foul will involve twisting or grabbing the face mask. Not sure how I feel about that one yet. 15 yarders are a severe penalty and now officials have the choice of letting something either go uncalled or the full 15 yards. As long as they reserve the 15 yarder for serious stuff only, I guess it may be an improvement… but you might see defenders start punching a guy in the face without twisting and getting away with it. [/QUOTE] I’m glad the hair thing wasn’t passed. I’m glad the radio was. Either both sides get a radio or nobody gets a radio. I’d prefer that nobody gets a radio, but at least it’s fair. I don’t get the false start penalty. The face mask thing strikes me as odd. I’d like t know the rationale. I don’t see people punching others in the face, though. I thought for a moment that more liberties might be taken in the bottom of a pile, but I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/542 "2008-04-03T00:33:12Z")
[QUOTE=SenorBeef] Teams that win the coin toss can now defer like college [/QUOTE] Wow, that is a major change that frankly, I thought I’d never see. I wonder why they felt the need? To bring the rules in line with the Madden videogame? I don’t see any other reason for it. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/543 "2008-04-03T00:43:02Z")
[QUOTE=Least Original User Name Ever] I’m glad the radio was. Either both sides get a radio or nobody gets a radio. I’d prefer that nobody gets a radio, but at least it’s fair. [/QUOTE] It’s not really all that fair. Well for Giants fans it is, but for most teams it is not. There is _always_ and _exactly_ one quarterback on the field for every offensive play. Thus, the rule about only one radio being allowed on the field at a time is a moot point for offense. The defense – which can only mic up two players and you can never have both miced up on the field at the same time – is going to have to change the way it does business. As Mark Schlereth pointed out, look at the Patriots. Tedy Bruschi is on the field 50% of the time, and he calls the plays when he’s on the field. (He reads the signals and gets everyone set.) So who gets the two mics? Pretty much everyone is going to have to start mic’ing one of the starting safeties and his backup, one of which is always on the field. In a 3-4, you simply cannot count on any given linebacker always being on the field. And in 4-3, historically the MLB is the first LB taken off in nickel and dime situations. When he’s on the field in the base defensive package, he usually calls the plays. But they can’t really afford to mic him if he’s not on the field in passing situations. Luckily for the Giants, MLB Antonio Pierce is always on the field regardless of package, so it makes sense to give him the mic and continue to let him call all the plays. Imagine being someone like the Cowboys; how thrilled are they going to be to mic Roy Williams? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/544 "2008-04-03T00:47:04Z")
You could have your MLB and your nickelback both have sets. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/545 "2008-04-03T01:03:05Z")
[QUOTE=Ellis Dee] It’s not really all that fair. Well for Giants fans it is, but for most teams it is not. There is _always_ and _exactly_ one quarterback on the field for every offensive play. Thus, the rule about only one radio being allowed on the field at a time is a moot point for offense. The defense – which can only mic up two players and you can never have both miced up on the field at the same time – is going to have to change the way it does business. As Mark Schlereth pointed out, look at the Patriots. Tedy Bruschi is on the field 50% of the time, and he calls the plays when he’s on the field. (He reads the signals and gets everyone set.) So who gets the two mics? Pretty much everyone is going to have to start mic’ing one of the starting safeties and his backup, one of which is always on the field. In a 3-4, you simply cannot count on any given linebacker always being on the field. And in 4-3, historically the MLB is the first LB taken off in nickel and dime situations. When he’s on the field in the base defensive package, he usually calls the plays. But they can’t really afford to mic him if he’s not on the field in passing situations. Luckily for the Giants, MLB Antonio Pierce is always on the field regardless of package, so it makes sense to give him the mic and continue to let him call all the plays. Imagine being someone like the Cowboys; how thrilled are they going to be to mic Roy Williams? [/QUOTE] According to the rules committee (I happened to be watching the NFL channel in the workout room when they were talking about this), the player that’s got the receiver has to report to the official when he gets into the game. Passing around the receiver may be a point of contention, or maybe everyone will have one but only one will be viable? I’m not suer exactly how it’ll be carried out. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/546 "2008-04-03T01:08:43Z")
[QUOTE=SenorBeef] You could have your MLB and your nickelback both have sets. [/QUOTE] Yep, or just give it to one of the safeties. But how natural would it be to have your nickelback calling the plays? Especially considering that rookie cornerbacks usually get worked in at nickelback. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/547 "2008-04-03T01:17:06Z")
Depends on each team’s needs. The nickelback might also be the aging grizzled vet who is getting a reduced workload. I was just contending that it didn’t always have to be a safety/backup (you probably don’t want your backup safety calling the plays either). There was some contention over having to show one of the refs that you were coming in with the helmet - there might not be time for someone to switch helmets between snaps. Perhaps a more elegant solution would’ve been to have the helmets receive on different frequencies, so that multiple players could wear a radio helmet, but only one could be transmitted to at once. Easier to cheat that way, I suppose - but it’s something the NFL could monitor. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/548 "2008-04-03T01:23:02Z")
Yeah, that’s a better idea. As for the lack of quality NFL discussion, while it’s true that there are really only seven participants in this thread, P2P drove away many of the sports fans. I’m hoping the return to free posting will infuse the sports threads with more participation. Consider the fantasy baseball keeper league, where the majority of participants (it seems) are no longer active members. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/549 "2008-04-03T01:31:50Z")
[QUOTE=SenorBeef] Depends on each team’s needs. The nickelback might also be the aging grizzled vet who is getting a reduced workload. I was just contending that it didn’t always have to be a safety/backup (you probably don’t want your backup safety calling the plays either). There was some contention over having to show one of the refs that you were coming in with the helmet - there might not be time for someone to switch helmets between snaps. Perhaps a more elegant solution would’ve been to have the helmets receive on different frequencies, so that multiple players could wear a radio helmet, but only one could be transmitted to at once. Easier to cheat that way, I suppose - but it’s something the NFL could monitor. [/QUOTE] Maybe it’s a way to speed up the game? Offenses would be looking for the confusion on the sidelines and running more no-huddle plays. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/550 "2008-04-03T01:36:26Z")
[QUOTE=Least Original User Name Ever] According to the rules committee (I happened to be watching the NFL channel in the workout room when they were talking about this), the player that’s got the receiver has to report to the official when he gets into the game. Passing around the receiver may be a point of contention, or maybe everyone will have one but only one will be viable? I’m not suer exactly how it’ll be carried out. [/QUOTE] I think that the whole "green dot’ helmet suggests that each helmet fitted with a receiver is considered to be ‘on’. I don’t see how officials could monitor to see how many of them were receiving at a given time, so it’ll probably have to be as mentioned above: either a safety and his backup, or a MLB and a nickelback. I would imagine that each of these players would also have a non-mic’d helmet, just in case a package required sending him in when the ‘main’ defensive signal caller was still on the field. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/551 "2008-04-03T01:49:58Z")
[QUOTE=Diomedes] I think that the whole "green dot’ helmet suggests that each helmet fitted with a receiver is considered to be ‘on’. I don’t see how officials could monitor to see how many of them were receiving at a given time, so it’ll probably have to be as mentioned above: either a safety and his backup, or a MLB and a nickelback. I would imagine that each of these players would also have a non-mic’d helmet, just in case a package required sending him in when the ‘main’ defensive signal caller was still on the field. [/QUOTE] I agree. I don’t know the best way to handle it, but I can think of a couple ways to handle it. You just described two of them. The other is to LET THE PLAYERS CALL THE PLAYS!!! _ahem_ Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/552 "2008-04-03T04:54:58Z")
So guess who got arrested again! [Chris Henry!](http://www.local12.com/content/breaking_news/story.aspx?content_id=722753fa-5212-4749-8edb-554e5f3d167b) With Housh talking about a holdout for a new contract, Cinci threatning to make Chad sit for the next 3 years if he doesn’t play nice, and Henry getting arrested again, the Bengals WR corps is in great shape. I wonder if any of the sports books had a prop bet on what happened first: Housh showing up to camp, Chad slapping Marvin around and/or showing up to camp, or Henry getting arrested. I wish I could’ve gotten in on that action. I remember the good old days when the AFC North’s only thugs were Stabbin Ray and friends. Cinci managed to shoot way out ahead of them, but Pittsburgh is trying to catch up with their women beating ways. Only the Browns have a clean record. ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/553 "2008-04-03T05:09:08Z")
[QUOTE=SenorBeef] Does Hester even play on the coverage unit? [/QUOTE] A guy who could own the career record for returns for touchdowns in his third year in the league does **not** play on cover teams. ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/554 "2008-04-03T05:12:46Z")
[QUOTE=SenorBeef] "• A direct snap from center that goes backward will now be treated as a fumble. Previously, it was ruled a false start. " (I’m not quite sure what this means) [/quote] This happened in the Bears/Philly game last year(?). QB is under center (not shotgun), and the snap went through the QB’s legs without touching him. Philly recovers and advances to the Bears’ 9, but the false start was called. The Bears drive to kick a FG and end up winning by 3. > [@](#): > > The 5-yard face mask penalty was eliminated. Now, only the serious face mask will be called (and will be assessed as a 15-yard penalty). The major foul will involve twisting or grabbing the face mask. I can live with this. I hate to see the 5-yarder called when the contact is purely incidental (?) and no tugging or twisting is involved. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/555 "2008-04-03T05:42:18Z")
[QUOTE=Oslo Ostragoth] A guy who could own the career record for returns for touchdowns in his third year in the league does **not** play on cover teams. [/QUOTE] I’m sorry for suggesting that his royal highness would lower himself to do grunt work. Hester is interesting - he has a pretty low average for the amount of kicks and punts he returns for TDs. It seems like he’s boom or bust - big run or nothing. His kick return average is only 21.7 which is the 40th (!) best kick return average for players with 15 returns or more. Cribbs is #1 with a 30.7 average. Hester fares much better in punt returning, coming in 2nd of the 15+ club with a 15.5 average, Cribbs comes in 4th with 13.5. So Cribbs massively outperforms Hester in kick returns, and lags behind marginally in punt returns, but doesn’t do anything else on STs while Cribbs is a special teams tackle machine. And yet all the talk and manlove is given to Hester, with Cribbs only getting a little bit of recognition. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/556 "2008-04-03T14:12:09Z")
Chris Henry arrested again. [http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/football/nfl/04/03/henry.bengals.ap/index.html](http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/football/nfl/04/03/henry.bengals.ap/index.html) I wonder if anyone will even bother to feign surprise this time… ---
**Author:** ![EsotericEnigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e274bd/32.png) [@EsotericEnigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EsotericEnigma)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/557 "2008-04-03T17:41:54Z")
I’m surprised the Bengals released him, usually teams look the other way about these kinds of shenanigans. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/558 "2008-04-03T17:44:40Z")
Well let that be a lesson to the other Bengals: If you get arrested 17 times, you’re in trouble! Looks like the schedule is set to come out on the 15th now. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/559 "2008-04-03T17:53:10Z")
[QUOTE=EsotericEnigma] I’m surprised the Bengals released him, usually teams look the other way about these kinds of shenanigans. [/QUOTE] Six strikes and you’re out. ---
**Author:** ![flood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@flood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flood)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702/560 "2008-04-03T18:28:19Z")
By any chance, did anyone else happen to catch that Chad Johnson interview last night on SC? It’s on [ESPN.com](http://ESPN.com) [here](http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?videoId=3326416&categoryId=2459789). It was pretty awkward. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-offseason-discussion-up-to-but-not-including-draft/438702.md?page=29)